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[Music]

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what's up everybody do that together

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right quick

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hope you liked it i know i'm always

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changing my intros you're probably

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getting lost every time you're here

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thinking am i in the right show i don't

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even know anymore

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i don't recognize this

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but you gotta get used to it because i'm

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a creative guy

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at least i pretend to be

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on tv and live streams

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i've been having some weird

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super weird like technical issues here

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um and i'm gonna

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go ahead and just blame that on

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our guest today

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who um has done some great work in the

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field

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and to further introduce him i'm going

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to bring in mr j christopher king how

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are you

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good i took this on the way here it's a

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guy with a hoodie on and says everything

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happens for a reason 333 well guess what

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it's 3 33 right now and wow

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wow

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it's uh it's it's not surprising at all

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because if you

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if you want to find synchronicities in

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your life i was talking to somebody

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about this the other day they were like

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gosh i i i just gotten back from houston

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i saw mike

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clelland in in houston uh we hung out

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together a good bit he was at the

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archives conference as well it was a

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surprise to see him

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and um and

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somebody uh after that was like gosh you

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know i don't really have those

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synchronicities as an experiencer as

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other types of modality stuff going on

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and and i was like well you know what

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you need to do is you need to go to a

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conference need to find mike clelland

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and you just need to like get some

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handcuffs and just handcuff yourself to

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mike clelland mike's going to hate this

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idea you handcuff yourself to mike clown

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for about a half hour and then you're

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going to have those you're going to have

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those synchronicities um just fall right

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in front of you you had one earlier

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today i i just had a few yeah

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yeah um he's he's uh

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i you know it's it's a chicken in the

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egg problem we'll have to ask mike

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whether

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i'm not a guy who goes out like looking

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for synchronicities either like it's

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it's just like i wouldn't

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like i don't know i don't know is what

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it is

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so do you want to

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give them

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one of your very professional

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introductions

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sure um

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my cologne is the author of the

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messengers stories from the messengers

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hidden experience

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self-rescue

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with mike fasulo glacier mountaineering

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with andy tyson and ultralight

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backpacking tips

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i feel a real kinship with mike on

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a pretty daily basis he also gets

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contacted by people researching their

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strange experiences looking for answers

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he's exactly the kind of open-minded and

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thoughtful listener with a keen ear for

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detail that i feel like the world really

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needs

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hello sir how are you oh he's still

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muted there we go there how's that

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better okay yep thank you so much

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i think it automatically muted me during

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the uh during the intro so

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um

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good i'm doing great thank you so much

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it was nice to meet you in person and

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it's nice to meet you virtually right

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now sean

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yeah nice to meet you as well thank you

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so much for donating your time to do

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this show i really appreciate it

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um

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we got a lot going on kind of in the ufo

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world right now i'd say

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um but there's also

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just a lot going on in the world in

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general i'd say but it's been a while

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since you wrote the book the messengers

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um

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i guess my first question to just get

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right into it is um since you've written

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that book

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have your

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views changed have

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um high strangers for lack of a better

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term has there been an uptick for you

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has it kind of dissipated um

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you know tell me a bit about your

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experiences since then

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well there was a certainly an uptick in

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the production of the book in the sense

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that the book itself seemed to generate

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its own cloud of

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the first book the messenger seemed to

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generate its own cloud of

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of synchronicities where i would um

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like i'd be working on a chapter and the

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book is essentially just story after

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story after story

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uh

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stacked up on each other trying to make

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my point my i was arguing the point

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that um ufos

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and owls are somehow connected you know

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what that connection might be is tricky

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to answer but i feel very strongly that

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there is a connection

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and i um

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and i tried to look at it from as many

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angles as i could

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and and use the stories that i've

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collected to to make my point so it's

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just as i said it's story after story so

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i would be working on something and i

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would be kind of like oh stuck and i'd

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be kind of oh i just need to finish this

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chapter and this one thing that wasn't

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something just wasn't falling into place

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and i would be in that moment of

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of sort of frustration and either i

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would

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be

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precisely the email i needed with

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precisely the story i needed to complete

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the chapter or it would happen right in

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that moment like ping that happened

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plenty of times in that in that book

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that there would be just the story i

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needed at the moment i needed

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after i completed that book

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um

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the the second book which is called

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stories from the messengers is

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essentially

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stories that were left over that i

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couldn't fit into the first book so that

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book was ready to go and i just started

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writing on that that was a totally

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different thing that was it had a

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totally different vibe so that first

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book definitely had this feeling that i

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was in a

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magical cloud

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a lot of the time during the writing

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process

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and the second book felt like work it

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felt together nicely but it did not have

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the same well like that's not true

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there's plenty of points it just didn't

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have as many it didn't there were plenty

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of points in the second book where it

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had that magical quality but it wasn't

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like

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being locked in the in the in the magic

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chamber like that's what it felt like

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during the first book so um

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so i guess your question was you know

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what has changed so the since doing the

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book well the

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so i've thought about this a lot

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recently so what has changed in a way is

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that i'm much much less

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like i'm not clinging to the owl

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issue as much as i did in the writing of

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the book i mean the writer the books had

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a very clear focus right it was about

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owls it was about their connection to

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these stranger issues and since then

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i've loosened my grip on on just owls so

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i'm very much open to

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what i would call mythic

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symbolism

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or dream language playing out in real

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life

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and and less

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less i mean i certainly collect a plenty

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of olive stories and i like them and i'm

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and i'm happy to collect them but i'm

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less um

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attached to the owl as

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as

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it's not required

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for my ideas at this point in in

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and i see the alice at mythic symbol and

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that's what i'm focusing on like these

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mythic symbols or dream language which

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is surely symbols yeah so maybe that was

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the the threat that was a part of the

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bigger fabric possibly and

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you know maybe or at least a starting

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point or jumping off point for where you

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might ultimately go with your work

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well certainly yeah so certainly there's

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been a it's it's the same it's a it's a

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nice

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linear path you can see how i got from

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point a to point b to point c but i've

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but um and i'm certainly very connected

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to the owl thing presently and still but

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um but i'm much more open to other birds

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i'm much more open to dream language i'm

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much more open to hearing people's

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very subtle experiences i i really don't

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run into that many stories about people

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saying like oh my gosh i have a memory

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of being in a ship and i was on a table

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i mean i've heard those stories

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but i'm much more um

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connected to

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like that the very elusive kind of

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subtle like the things that a

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scriptwriter would put into a movie that

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would just

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elevate the mood slightly as opposed to

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being hit over the head with like such

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such blatant

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um

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like storytelling narrative that makes

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sense

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yeah

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it does

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absolutely and along the lines of that

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the subtlety there

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um

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you've been an outdoors instructor for

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many years and have a parallel writing

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career writing about

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practical camping and hiking advice

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among other things how do you feel your

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role or roles in the outdoors camping

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hiking in nature do you feel that's

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given you any kind of advantage in terms

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of noticing high strangeness or

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attenuating yourself to that

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ooh that's so actually so there's very

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little crossover between the two worlds

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in on a very practical level but on a

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less practical more

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philosophical level like to do to take

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on that work and to work as an out like

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an outdoor educator in the mountains in

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alaska and such like that for

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like 25 years like i had to like

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like i was i had i worked in new york

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city i lived you're i lived about a few

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blocks from where you're sitting there

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jay for a long time and um in the 80s

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and and i worked as a professional

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illustrator doing like

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totally

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work a day stuff

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with ad agencies and then i

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got up quit that life and moved to idaho

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and

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odd life path there the transition so

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um

284
00:11:02,069 --> 00:10:59,600
it would be great if i could say oh i

285
00:11:03,990 --> 00:11:02,079
tapped into some sort of eternal

286
00:11:06,949 --> 00:11:04,000
wilderness

287
00:11:10,710 --> 00:11:06,959
experience that transformed me to this

288
00:11:14,630 --> 00:11:10,720
like guru status but it didn't um

289
00:11:16,710 --> 00:11:14,640
but what i can say is that it certainly

290
00:11:18,550 --> 00:11:16,720
it's certainly

291
00:11:20,550 --> 00:11:18,560
like i had to cut

292
00:11:22,949 --> 00:11:20,560
an old life away i had to like take the

293
00:11:25,509 --> 00:11:22,959
big scissors and snip the old life and

294
00:11:27,670 --> 00:11:25,519
just let it die and let it let it

295
00:11:29,030 --> 00:11:27,680
fall away and then fully give myself

296
00:11:31,430 --> 00:11:29,040
over to this new life of outdoor

297
00:11:33,269 --> 00:11:31,440
education and that was actually a

298
00:11:35,269 --> 00:11:33,279
powerful experience that that just

299
00:11:37,190 --> 00:11:35,279
complete i had to like my parents didn't

300
00:11:39,110 --> 00:11:37,200
understand my friends didn't understand

301
00:11:40,470 --> 00:11:39,120
nobody understood except the core people

302
00:11:43,509 --> 00:11:40,480
that i worked with in the mountains and

303
00:11:45,269 --> 00:11:43,519
stuff but um so i was like i i was out

304
00:11:46,550 --> 00:11:45,279
there i wasn't alone there was other

305
00:11:48,790 --> 00:11:46,560
people i was working with and had the

306
00:11:50,150 --> 00:11:48,800
same experiences but um i'm the same

307
00:11:51,750 --> 00:11:50,160
like outdoor experiences so your

308
00:11:53,509 --> 00:11:51,760
question was

309
00:11:55,750 --> 00:11:53,519
you know how did i how did it influence

310
00:11:58,150 --> 00:11:55,760
me and what it what was most important

311
00:12:00,310 --> 00:11:58,160
was my ability to like snip

312
00:12:02,069 --> 00:12:00,320
let go of of the um

313
00:12:04,069 --> 00:12:02,079
that old life

314
00:12:06,069 --> 00:12:04,079
and and just give myself completely over

315
00:12:09,030 --> 00:12:06,079
to a new life which was

316
00:12:11,430 --> 00:12:09,040
so required when this owl stuff started

317
00:12:13,590 --> 00:12:11,440
invading my life like i i

318
00:12:15,430 --> 00:12:13,600
like i had to make a very conscious

319
00:12:16,949 --> 00:12:15,440
decision like i am not going to turn my

320
00:12:18,150 --> 00:12:16,959
back on this i am going to face it i'm

321
00:12:19,750 --> 00:12:18,160
going to follow it i'm going to pull on

322
00:12:22,710 --> 00:12:19,760
this thread

323
00:12:24,470 --> 00:12:22,720
i have to to follow this that was the

324
00:12:25,990 --> 00:12:24,480
lesson that i learned

325
00:12:30,629 --> 00:12:26,000
from the outdoor work and that's why

326
00:12:35,350 --> 00:12:33,590
it's it's fascinating the the the idea

327
00:12:36,550 --> 00:12:35,360
of the thread and

328
00:12:38,310 --> 00:12:36,560
and you kind of

329
00:12:40,470 --> 00:12:38,320
coming to the idea of snipping and the

330
00:12:44,069 --> 00:12:40,480
focus there you know we had we were

331
00:12:45,509 --> 00:12:44,079
talking to a remote viewer uh daz a few

332
00:12:49,030 --> 00:12:45,519
weeks ago and

333
00:12:51,269 --> 00:12:49,040
and nick cook a couple months ago and

334
00:12:52,949 --> 00:12:51,279
both of them kind of commented on or we

335
00:12:56,470 --> 00:12:52,959
were talking about

336
00:12:59,430 --> 00:12:56,480
how ingo swann had this old theory about

337
00:13:01,030 --> 00:12:59,440
how much of the world is noise

338
00:13:04,310 --> 00:13:01,040
versus signal

339
00:13:06,710 --> 00:13:04,320
you know and that ingo thought that just

340
00:13:08,629 --> 00:13:06,720
one or two percent of what was actually

341
00:13:10,710 --> 00:13:08,639
happening was the signal that we really

342
00:13:13,350 --> 00:13:10,720
needed to pay attention to

343
00:13:15,509 --> 00:13:13,360
uh in life in terms of like

344
00:13:17,430 --> 00:13:15,519
achieving our destiny or something like

345
00:13:19,910 --> 00:13:17,440
that and i'm not sure that i'm i i don't

346
00:13:21,990 --> 00:13:19,920
mean to mischaracterize and go uh he

347
00:13:25,030 --> 00:13:22,000
also lived kind of near here so if i'm

348
00:13:27,590 --> 00:13:25,040
misrepresenting ingo he can feel free

349
00:13:30,389 --> 00:13:27,600
to lightly haunt me this afternoon and

350
00:13:33,350 --> 00:13:30,399
then hopefully leave by dinner time but

351
00:13:35,190 --> 00:13:33,360
um but um that one pre that one to two

352
00:13:37,110 --> 00:13:35,200
percent of syncdoll

353
00:13:39,430 --> 00:13:37,120
he said was

354
00:13:42,230 --> 00:13:39,440
to him and this is i think back in the

355
00:13:43,829 --> 00:13:42,240
early 80s when he was saying this um was

356
00:13:45,110 --> 00:13:43,839
due to

357
00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:45,120
you knew that you were on the right

358
00:13:49,030 --> 00:13:47,600
track when these synchronicities would

359
00:13:52,310 --> 00:13:49,040
start lining up

360
00:13:53,910 --> 00:13:52,320
and we heard similar material from

361
00:13:56,310 --> 00:13:53,920
robert knight a

362
00:13:57,269 --> 00:13:56,320
photographer who's hung out with a lot

363
00:14:04,710 --> 00:13:57,279
of

364
00:14:07,110 --> 00:14:04,720
popularly called a superstition but

365
00:14:09,189 --> 00:14:07,120
aren't necessarily right when you get

366
00:14:11,590 --> 00:14:09,199
into a situation like this do you think

367
00:14:13,509 --> 00:14:11,600
that that hyper focus

368
00:14:15,509 --> 00:14:13,519
that being able to like follow the

369
00:14:16,629 --> 00:14:15,519
thread do you think that that could have

370
00:14:18,870 --> 00:14:16,639
existed

371
00:14:21,110 --> 00:14:18,880
with almost

372
00:14:22,629 --> 00:14:21,120
you know i remember douglas adams saying

373
00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:22,639
like the key to the

374
00:14:29,110 --> 00:14:25,680
life is 42 or whatever and you followed

375
00:14:30,790 --> 00:14:29,120
owls like tenaciously and then the world

376
00:14:33,750 --> 00:14:30,800
of high strangeness

377
00:14:36,470 --> 00:14:33,760
kind of erupted around you um do you

378
00:14:38,230 --> 00:14:36,480
think it had to be owls

379
00:14:39,750 --> 00:14:38,240
well the owls erupted around me and then

380
00:14:42,150 --> 00:14:39,760
i followed that so there was an eruption

381
00:14:44,949 --> 00:14:42,160
first and then i then i like i was

382
00:14:46,389 --> 00:14:44,959
undeniable and i had to follow it so um

383
00:14:47,590 --> 00:14:46,399
uh

384
00:14:48,949 --> 00:14:47,600
so what was your question did you just

385
00:14:51,269 --> 00:14:48,959
the last little bit you just asked i

386
00:14:52,710 --> 00:14:51,279
kind of oh just do do you feel like it

387
00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:52,720
had to be the alice and i guess the

388
00:14:56,870 --> 00:14:55,440
answer is yes well the owls chose me so

389
00:14:59,030 --> 00:14:56,880
yes so the owls

390
00:15:02,550 --> 00:14:59,040
like i was confronted with owls like it

391
00:15:04,949 --> 00:15:02,560
was it went it was off the charts for

392
00:15:07,110 --> 00:15:04,959
for a bunch of years like i was living

393
00:15:08,949 --> 00:15:07,120
in a place with a lot owls but it wasn't

394
00:15:10,550 --> 00:15:08,959
just owls in real life which i've seen

395
00:15:13,990 --> 00:15:10,560
plenty of i actually have a funny story

396
00:15:16,470 --> 00:15:14,000
where i i literally had to like in 2009

397
00:15:18,230 --> 00:15:16,480
i had to like say like enough like no

398
00:15:19,430 --> 00:15:18,240
stop i'm not gonna i basically i walked

399
00:15:20,790 --> 00:15:19,440
into the woods alone i know right where

400
00:15:22,710 --> 00:15:20,800
i was i walked in the woods alone and i

401
00:15:24,470 --> 00:15:22,720
said i am not going to pay attention

402
00:15:27,269 --> 00:15:24,480
like i've said you know universe i am

403
00:15:28,949 --> 00:15:27,279
not going to pay attention to to

404
00:15:30,550 --> 00:15:28,959
just a owl on a fence post off in the

405
00:15:31,990 --> 00:15:30,560
distance that doesn't count i'm not

406
00:15:33,829 --> 00:15:32,000
going to pay attention to that that

407
00:15:38,150 --> 00:15:33,839
won't count and i said i'm only going to

408
00:15:41,189 --> 00:15:40,150
and then a day or two later i was riding

409
00:15:43,430 --> 00:15:41,199
the bike down the main street of the

410
00:15:44,710 --> 00:15:43,440
town and this owl i saw this owl on this

411
00:15:45,910 --> 00:15:44,720
this

412
00:15:47,910 --> 00:15:45,920
uh

413
00:15:49,590 --> 00:15:47,920
tree it's like kind of just gently

414
00:15:50,870 --> 00:15:49,600
downhill so i'm kind of coasting through

415
00:15:53,430 --> 00:15:50,880
the main street of the town and there's

416
00:15:54,470 --> 00:15:53,440
this owl on a tree and as i come closer

417
00:15:56,150 --> 00:15:54,480
it just

418
00:15:57,590 --> 00:15:56,160
lights and just drops off or it drops

419
00:15:59,670 --> 00:15:57,600
off the tree and then

420
00:16:01,269 --> 00:15:59,680
flies right in front of my face at eye

421
00:16:02,870 --> 00:16:01,279
level and lands and then on another tree

422
00:16:04,629 --> 00:16:02,880
so it so like i said i won't pay

423
00:16:07,189 --> 00:16:04,639
attention unless an all crosses my path

424
00:16:09,189 --> 00:16:07,199
and i'll cross my path on a bicycle like

425
00:16:11,189 --> 00:16:09,199
it felt like close enough that i could

426
00:16:14,150 --> 00:16:11,199
you know reach out and touch it so

427
00:16:19,350 --> 00:16:16,870
so in its it's been

428
00:16:21,350 --> 00:16:19,360
so the owl isn't just a bird with big

429
00:16:23,910 --> 00:16:21,360
eyes that's associated with ufos and

430
00:16:25,590 --> 00:16:23,920
other myths and such like that it's a

431
00:16:27,590 --> 00:16:25,600
it's an archetype similar to other

432
00:16:28,710 --> 00:16:27,600
archetypes it's certainly a potent

433
00:16:29,990 --> 00:16:28,720
archetype

434
00:16:32,710 --> 00:16:30,000
and

435
00:16:36,069 --> 00:16:34,310
i've been i've gone through all kinds of

436
00:16:37,829 --> 00:16:36,079
phases than this where i was just like

437
00:16:40,069 --> 00:16:37,839
you know oh my gosh the owl is the be

438
00:16:42,870 --> 00:16:40,079
all and end all and it is the key to

439
00:16:44,710 --> 00:16:42,880
unlock the overall mystery and i've

440
00:16:47,910 --> 00:16:44,720
lightened up a little bit since then

441
00:16:48,710 --> 00:16:47,920
and it's uh and i see it much more now

442
00:16:53,430 --> 00:16:48,720
as

443
00:16:56,150 --> 00:16:53,440
symbols that show up in in the lives of

444
00:16:57,590 --> 00:16:56,160
experiencers i had um

445
00:16:58,949 --> 00:16:57,600
i wrote there's a fellow named alan

446
00:17:01,910 --> 00:16:58,959
green and he put out a series of books

447
00:17:04,069 --> 00:17:01,920
called the sync books syncs like for

448
00:17:05,829 --> 00:17:04,079
synchronicity so he did three big fat

449
00:17:07,029 --> 00:17:05,839
books on synchronicity and had all these

450
00:17:07,829 --> 00:17:07,039
guest writers many of whom you would

451
00:17:10,309 --> 00:17:07,839
know

452
00:17:12,470 --> 00:17:10,319
um and i was one of them in in the

453
00:17:14,390 --> 00:17:12,480
second book

454
00:17:16,150 --> 00:17:14,400
and i wrote an essay and i had a friend

455
00:17:17,829 --> 00:17:16,160
of mine help me with the essay and i was

456
00:17:19,029 --> 00:17:17,839
kind of like talking out of my hat a

457
00:17:20,309 --> 00:17:19,039
little bit and i was kind of like hey

458
00:17:21,590 --> 00:17:20,319
you know

459
00:17:23,189 --> 00:17:21,600
people uh

460
00:17:24,630 --> 00:17:23,199
you know people have had the ufo contact

461
00:17:27,029 --> 00:17:24,640
experience they have more

462
00:17:29,029 --> 00:17:27,039
synchronicities than joe normal like i

463
00:17:30,390 --> 00:17:29,039
was i felt confident in saying that she

464
00:17:32,789 --> 00:17:30,400
looked at me like she just rolled her

465
00:17:33,750 --> 00:17:32,799
eyes and she said anyone on a spiritual

466
00:17:36,950 --> 00:17:33,760
path

467
00:17:38,070 --> 00:17:36,960
will have more synchronicities

468
00:17:39,669 --> 00:17:38,080
and she looked at me like i was so

469
00:17:41,909 --> 00:17:39,679
stupid like well how would like get on

470
00:17:43,430 --> 00:17:41,919
you like get off your high horse buddy

471
00:17:44,789 --> 00:17:43,440
and and i thought for a second it's like

472
00:17:47,270 --> 00:17:44,799
well

473
00:17:49,029 --> 00:17:47,280
it made perfect sense now

474
00:17:51,430 --> 00:17:49,039
it like felt true like on a full

475
00:17:54,549 --> 00:17:51,440
visceral body level it felt true so

476
00:17:57,830 --> 00:17:56,470
you know i i was saying ufo contact

477
00:17:59,669 --> 00:17:57,840
people with ufo contact have more

478
00:18:01,029 --> 00:17:59,679
synchronicities and she said no no

479
00:18:02,390 --> 00:18:01,039
anyone on a spiritual path will have

480
00:18:04,789 --> 00:18:02,400
more synchronicities and i said okay

481
00:18:08,470 --> 00:18:04,799
given that model

482
00:18:10,710 --> 00:18:08,480
ufo contact would be a spiritual path

483
00:18:12,310 --> 00:18:10,720
and i and i really took that to heart

484
00:18:13,909 --> 00:18:12,320
like it's not just

485
00:18:15,510 --> 00:18:13,919
some poor victim which there's certainly

486
00:18:16,710 --> 00:18:15,520
you could and i want to be very cautious

487
00:18:17,990 --> 00:18:16,720
to say this because i know people of a

488
00:18:20,549 --> 00:18:18,000
lot of people have had really tough

489
00:18:22,390 --> 00:18:20,559
experiences as have i and i think that

490
00:18:25,270 --> 00:18:22,400
coming to terms with the experience is

491
00:18:27,110 --> 00:18:25,280
tougher than the experience itself in

492
00:18:32,549 --> 00:18:27,120
many ways

493
00:18:37,190 --> 00:18:35,110
any anything anyone who's who's been

494
00:18:39,270 --> 00:18:37,200
confronted with something that is

495
00:18:41,029 --> 00:18:39,280
outside the bounds of what society says

496
00:18:42,870 --> 00:18:41,039
whether it's seeing a marian apparition

497
00:18:45,590 --> 00:18:42,880
or whether that's seeing a

498
00:18:49,830 --> 00:18:45,600
fairy in the woods of ireland or whether

499
00:18:52,070 --> 00:18:49,840
that's seeing uh like a ufo over ohio

500
00:18:53,270 --> 00:18:52,080
right you are confronted with something

501
00:18:55,669 --> 00:18:53,280
that that

502
00:18:57,750 --> 00:18:55,679
that society tells you this cannot

503
00:18:59,270 --> 00:18:57,760
happen and you are forced

504
00:19:01,350 --> 00:18:59,280
like you've seen it with your own eyes

505
00:19:03,190 --> 00:19:01,360
you've had the direct experience

506
00:19:04,390 --> 00:19:03,200
you're alone except for now we're on the

507
00:19:06,310 --> 00:19:04,400
internet you can find other people

508
00:19:08,310 --> 00:19:06,320
who've had marian apparitions and seen

509
00:19:09,190 --> 00:19:08,320
fairies and seen ufos

510
00:19:11,190 --> 00:19:09,200
so

511
00:19:13,190 --> 00:19:11,200
like

512
00:19:14,710 --> 00:19:13,200
that forces

513
00:19:18,150 --> 00:19:14,720
the individual

514
00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:18,160
to like really go on an internal

515
00:19:21,270 --> 00:19:19,200
journey

516
00:19:22,630 --> 00:19:21,280
and and if you don't do that internal

517
00:19:24,630 --> 00:19:22,640
journey

518
00:19:26,950 --> 00:19:24,640
you're you're missing

519
00:19:30,789 --> 00:19:26,960
what i feel might be the reason for the

520
00:19:36,070 --> 00:19:33,430
uh it's interesting that you'd say you

521
00:19:38,150 --> 00:19:36,080
know rewinding a little bit um grabbing

522
00:19:39,990 --> 00:19:38,160
what you said about you feel like that

523
00:19:40,950 --> 00:19:40,000
owls chose you

524
00:19:42,789 --> 00:19:40,960
right

525
00:19:44,710 --> 00:19:42,799
um and then you're kind of confronted

526
00:19:47,669 --> 00:19:44,720
with this situation where

527
00:19:49,110 --> 00:19:47,679
um almost if if you don't dive in

528
00:19:50,630 --> 00:19:49,120
headfirst

529
00:19:52,870 --> 00:19:50,640
to this

530
00:19:55,430 --> 00:19:52,880
what i guess could be it is somewhat of

531
00:19:56,870 --> 00:19:55,440
an opportunity a spiritual opportunity

532
00:19:58,710 --> 00:19:56,880
um

533
00:20:01,669 --> 00:19:58,720
you don't necessarily benefit from it

534
00:20:02,950 --> 00:20:01,679
more or less so my my question is you

535
00:20:04,630 --> 00:20:02,960
know

536
00:20:07,590 --> 00:20:04,640
what makes you think that you were

537
00:20:09,270 --> 00:20:07,600
chosen versus like some sort of

538
00:20:12,789 --> 00:20:09,280
you know natural thing that happens to

539
00:20:15,830 --> 00:20:12,799
people maybe not natural but you know um

540
00:20:17,590 --> 00:20:15,840
bizarre thing that happens to people um

541
00:20:19,190 --> 00:20:17,600
and

542
00:20:22,390 --> 00:20:19,200
you know the other

543
00:20:24,630 --> 00:20:22,400
thing i would ask is how do you gauge if

544
00:20:26,950 --> 00:20:24,640
you know diving in head first has been

545
00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:26,960
beneficial or not you know how what's

546
00:20:29,830 --> 00:20:28,000
your

547
00:20:32,149 --> 00:20:29,840
how do you measure that

548
00:20:33,430 --> 00:20:32,159
okay so the second part first so was it

549
00:20:34,390 --> 00:20:33,440
beneficial

550
00:20:36,390 --> 00:20:34,400
like

551
00:20:38,470 --> 00:20:36,400
what i can say well it's it's been a

552
00:20:39,909 --> 00:20:38,480
mess in a lot of ways right so it feels

553
00:20:42,310 --> 00:20:39,919
like i've lost friends and i've gained

554
00:20:44,789 --> 00:20:42,320
new friends i've i've

555
00:20:47,110 --> 00:20:44,799
i feel like the work i used to do like i

556
00:20:49,669 --> 00:20:47,120
can't it's no longer has the same pulled

557
00:20:51,270 --> 00:20:49,679
for me so like i lost a career

558
00:20:53,190 --> 00:20:51,280
i followed one path and a career fell

559
00:20:54,870 --> 00:20:53,200
away the same thing happened i was happy

560
00:20:56,789 --> 00:20:54,880
to lose the career in advertising it was

561
00:20:59,990 --> 00:20:56,799
kind of soulless in a lot of ways for me

562
00:21:01,270 --> 00:21:00,000
personally and and but you know the

563
00:21:02,950 --> 00:21:01,280
outdoor work

564
00:21:05,510 --> 00:21:02,960
bunch of things like all of a sudden i'm

565
00:21:07,909 --> 00:21:05,520
almost 60 now and it's kind of hard to

566
00:21:09,270 --> 00:21:07,919
you know hike and teach in the mountains

567
00:21:11,110 --> 00:21:09,280
and carry a pack and everything like

568
00:21:19,909 --> 00:21:11,120
that in a big mountain environment

569
00:21:19,919 --> 00:21:23,830
okay you asked

570
00:21:27,430 --> 00:21:25,909
was i chosen

571
00:21:29,029 --> 00:21:27,440
okay so so

572
00:21:31,430 --> 00:21:29,039
go on yes

573
00:21:34,230 --> 00:21:31,440
well how do you determine if you were

574
00:21:35,350 --> 00:21:34,240
chosen versus it's you know some sort of

575
00:21:37,750 --> 00:21:35,360
kind of

576
00:21:38,950 --> 00:21:37,760
odd thing that people just go through

577
00:21:41,270 --> 00:21:38,960
sometimes

578
00:21:42,390 --> 00:21:41,280
you know step into the world of oz

579
00:21:44,630 --> 00:21:42,400
somehow

580
00:21:46,870 --> 00:21:44,640
well so being chosen is it that that has

581
00:21:49,350 --> 00:21:46,880
a sort of a like like i say the owls

582
00:21:51,029 --> 00:21:49,360
chose me is what i say because i had a

583
00:21:52,710 --> 00:21:51,039
direct experience with owls whether i

584
00:21:53,590 --> 00:21:52,720
used through

585
00:21:54,870 --> 00:21:53,600
uh

586
00:21:57,190 --> 00:21:54,880
you know this

587
00:21:59,029 --> 00:21:57,200
psychic power of of

588
00:22:00,549 --> 00:21:59,039
like the synchronistic magic whether i

589
00:22:03,590 --> 00:22:00,559
generated the synchronicity with the

590
00:22:05,430 --> 00:22:03,600
owls on purpose but that i f i can

591
00:22:07,590 --> 00:22:05,440
follow the logic of that

592
00:22:09,190 --> 00:22:07,600
and maybe that's what happened but it

593
00:22:10,789 --> 00:22:09,200
felt like

594
00:22:13,110 --> 00:22:10,799
like i was at a certain point in my life

595
00:22:14,710 --> 00:22:13,120
and something had to snap like i was at

596
00:22:17,350 --> 00:22:14,720
a point in my life where i was

597
00:22:19,110 --> 00:22:17,360
had memories of ufo contact

598
00:22:21,750 --> 00:22:19,120
well let's say experiences that

599
00:22:24,149 --> 00:22:21,760
certainly played out like ufo contact i

600
00:22:27,190 --> 00:22:24,159
had those memories from my childhood and

601
00:22:29,270 --> 00:22:27,200
from being a younger man and those

602
00:22:30,630 --> 00:22:29,280
stories i've managed to push him away

603
00:22:32,950 --> 00:22:30,640
and push him away and push him and push

604
00:22:34,149 --> 00:22:32,960
him just deny him and deny him and that

605
00:22:36,070 --> 00:22:34,159
didn't work

606
00:22:37,270 --> 00:22:36,080
for a while and that's and what happened

607
00:22:42,630 --> 00:22:37,280
was

608
00:22:44,710 --> 00:22:42,640
examining the memories themselves that

609
00:22:46,630 --> 00:22:44,720
that

610
00:22:48,789 --> 00:22:46,640
brought me to a place of let's say

611
00:22:51,990 --> 00:22:48,799
better understanding of myself it was

612
00:22:54,789 --> 00:22:52,000
the owls it was the events with the owls

613
00:22:57,270 --> 00:22:54,799
really shook me up there was it was it

614
00:22:58,789 --> 00:22:57,280
seemed like magic there's other people

615
00:23:00,230 --> 00:22:58,799
like jeffrey [\h__\h] who would use

616
00:23:02,870 --> 00:23:00,240
another word than magic i'm totally

617
00:23:04,870 --> 00:23:02,880
content using magic you know i i'm at

618
00:23:06,830 --> 00:23:04,880
peace with saying it was a mystical

619
00:23:10,470 --> 00:23:06,840
magical set of events

620
00:23:12,950 --> 00:23:10,480
uh an academic may parse that out with

621
00:23:14,390 --> 00:23:12,960
bigger words but magic seems fine for me

622
00:23:16,149 --> 00:23:14,400
um

623
00:23:18,390 --> 00:23:16,159
and

624
00:23:19,350 --> 00:23:18,400
so i was confronted with these magical

625
00:23:20,390 --> 00:23:19,360
events

626
00:23:23,830 --> 00:23:20,400
which were

627
00:23:26,549 --> 00:23:23,840
essentially just seeing owls everywhere

628
00:23:28,070 --> 00:23:26,559
in and often in highly

629
00:23:30,149 --> 00:23:28,080
prescient

630
00:23:32,390 --> 00:23:30,159
circumstances so it like it wasn't just

631
00:23:34,549 --> 00:23:32,400
i saw it all on a fence it was like like

632
00:23:36,390 --> 00:23:34,559
my thoughts my mood my

633
00:23:38,149 --> 00:23:36,400
internal dialogue at the moment of

634
00:23:39,909 --> 00:23:38,159
seeing the owls

635
00:23:42,470 --> 00:23:39,919
implied and meant something

636
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:46,549
and

637
00:23:46,559 --> 00:23:48,789
so

638
00:23:52,470 --> 00:23:50,310
if you want to go there i can go there

639
00:23:55,190 --> 00:23:52,480
but i i have a story that takes a long

640
00:23:55,990 --> 00:23:55,200
time to tell but i it has the it will it

641
00:23:58,390 --> 00:23:56,000
will

642
00:24:01,029 --> 00:23:58,400
tap into that you know sense of being

643
00:24:02,789 --> 00:24:01,039
chosen and this story took

644
00:24:04,230 --> 00:24:02,799
like you know eight years to actually

645
00:24:05,430 --> 00:24:04,240
play out so it's one of those things

646
00:24:06,390 --> 00:24:05,440
where you know something happened then

647
00:24:07,510 --> 00:24:06,400
and something happened here and

648
00:24:08,950 --> 00:24:07,520
something happened here and by the time

649
00:24:11,350 --> 00:24:08,960
it all plays out i looked back and said

650
00:24:13,110 --> 00:24:11,360
look well this this plays out like a

651
00:24:15,830 --> 00:24:13,120
like a linear

652
00:24:18,230 --> 00:24:15,840
story like a like a like a a plus b

653
00:24:21,110 --> 00:24:18,240
equals c and i was meant to have these

654
00:24:22,710 --> 00:24:21,120
experiences so and i and i certainly

655
00:24:25,029 --> 00:24:22,720
recognize that i don't want to come off

656
00:24:25,750 --> 00:24:25,039
as grandiose and and

657
00:24:27,909 --> 00:24:25,760
and

658
00:24:30,470 --> 00:24:27,919
holier than thou in this stuff because i

659
00:24:32,470 --> 00:24:30,480
think lots of people are chosen for

660
00:24:34,710 --> 00:24:32,480
or

661
00:24:37,190 --> 00:24:34,720
something internal they follow their

662
00:24:38,710 --> 00:24:37,200
their deepest

663
00:24:40,789 --> 00:24:38,720
highest self

664
00:24:42,950 --> 00:24:40,799
and then and then

665
00:24:45,750 --> 00:24:42,960
you know powerful things can emerge from

666
00:24:47,909 --> 00:24:45,760
from that kind of abandonment

667
00:24:49,510 --> 00:24:47,919
i i personally i would love to hear that

668
00:24:52,070 --> 00:24:49,520
story and i'm good i see in the chat

669
00:24:54,870 --> 00:24:52,080
that some others would as well yeah okay

670
00:24:55,990 --> 00:24:54,880
that's right we're live okay yeah um so

671
00:24:57,909 --> 00:24:56,000
uh

672
00:24:59,750 --> 00:24:57,919
and catch me like i do this thing and i

673
00:25:01,909 --> 00:24:59,760
know i do it where i where i start

674
00:25:03,110 --> 00:25:01,919
telling one story and then it turns into

675
00:25:04,710 --> 00:25:03,120
another story and it turns into a third

676
00:25:06,470 --> 00:25:04,720
story so don't be afraid to like reign

677
00:25:08,549 --> 00:25:06,480
me in and like you know you know like

678
00:25:10,230 --> 00:25:08,559
lead the puppy back to the back to the

679
00:25:11,909 --> 00:25:10,240
to the mat you know so

680
00:25:13,430 --> 00:25:11,919
um

681
00:25:15,669 --> 00:25:13,440
uh

682
00:25:18,470 --> 00:25:15,679
and jay you've heard these stories

683
00:25:21,750 --> 00:25:18,480
and and i've told them before and so

684
00:25:26,070 --> 00:25:23,750
i'll try to sum this up

685
00:25:27,430 --> 00:25:26,080
somewhat succinctly which i'm

686
00:25:30,149 --> 00:25:27,440
sometimes doesn't work so well for me

687
00:25:34,390 --> 00:25:30,159
but in oh i i love hearing a good yarn

688
00:25:36,549 --> 00:25:34,400
even third or fourth day in in 2013

689
00:25:38,149 --> 00:25:36,559
on march 10th

690
00:25:39,190 --> 00:25:38,159
this is funny you know what so so here

691
00:25:40,230 --> 00:25:39,200
i'll tell you and i'll get back to this

692
00:25:43,510 --> 00:25:40,240
in a second

693
00:25:46,230 --> 00:25:43,520
on march 10 2013

694
00:25:48,789 --> 00:25:46,240
i was coming home from a ufo conference

695
00:25:50,310 --> 00:25:48,799
this was in um the conference that's

696
00:25:51,110 --> 00:25:50,320
held annually

697
00:25:53,669 --> 00:25:51,120
in

698
00:25:54,870 --> 00:25:53,679
phoenix outside of phoenix the iufoc and

699
00:25:56,070 --> 00:25:54,880
i was coming back from that conference

700
00:25:57,669 --> 00:25:56,080
and i'd asked a lot of people at that

701
00:25:59,029 --> 00:25:57,679
conference about owl stuff and i knew i

702
00:26:01,190 --> 00:25:59,039
was gonna i knew i was gonna kind of

703
00:26:04,070 --> 00:26:01,200
write do it right up at something on the

704
00:26:04,950 --> 00:26:04,080
owls so i kind of was percolating there

705
00:26:11,110 --> 00:26:04,960
and

706
00:26:12,630 --> 00:26:11,120
on along highway 20 near i-15 in

707
00:26:13,750 --> 00:26:12,640
southern utah

708
00:26:14,870 --> 00:26:13,760
between

709
00:26:17,750 --> 00:26:14,880
it's right near a little town called

710
00:26:19,110 --> 00:26:17,760
beaver utah

711
00:26:21,350 --> 00:26:19,120
and

712
00:26:23,190 --> 00:26:21,360
i a lot happened that night oh my god a

713
00:26:24,789 --> 00:26:23,200
lot happened that night so i slept out

714
00:26:26,310 --> 00:26:24,799
under the stars and i

715
00:26:27,669 --> 00:26:26,320
which i do a lot right so i didn't i

716
00:26:28,870 --> 00:26:27,679
didn't have to get a hotel room i have a

717
00:26:30,230 --> 00:26:28,880
drive with a big sleeping bag in the

718
00:26:32,230 --> 00:26:30,240
back of my car and a pillow and a big

719
00:26:34,149 --> 00:26:32,240
thick mat and so i just slept out

720
00:26:35,669 --> 00:26:34,159
glorious perfect cold night i have a

721
00:26:36,310 --> 00:26:35,679
winter sleeping bag and a pillow and it

722
00:26:40,710 --> 00:26:36,320
was

723
00:26:42,630 --> 00:26:40,720
it's the kind of thing i love

724
00:26:44,630 --> 00:26:42,640
trillions of stars and

725
00:26:45,830 --> 00:26:44,640
and and i

726
00:26:47,430 --> 00:26:45,840
i woke up in the middle of the night and

727
00:26:49,590 --> 00:26:47,440
i looked up at this hilltop and i said

728
00:26:52,230 --> 00:26:49,600
that looks just like a landed flying

729
00:26:54,149 --> 00:26:52,240
saucer

730
00:26:55,990 --> 00:26:54,159
the thing on the hillside it's like like

731
00:26:58,390 --> 00:26:56,000
this that looks like a landed flying

732
00:26:59,750 --> 00:26:58,400
saucer and i remember i was i just got

733
00:27:02,149 --> 00:26:59,760
back from ufo conference and i thought

734
00:27:04,149 --> 00:27:02,159
to myself like i'm like i have these

735
00:27:06,390 --> 00:27:04,159
intuitive senses and i feel like i'm

736
00:27:08,390 --> 00:27:06,400
kind of tapped in and i'm like if that

737
00:27:09,990 --> 00:27:08,400
was a flying saucer i would know it

738
00:27:11,269 --> 00:27:10,000
right so i would feel it i would feel

739
00:27:13,350 --> 00:27:11,279
some sort of

740
00:27:14,870 --> 00:27:13,360
cosmic mojo and so i lay there and i

741
00:27:17,029 --> 00:27:14,880
looked up at this thing for my pillow

742
00:27:18,830 --> 00:27:17,039
and just looked and looked and looked

743
00:27:21,590 --> 00:27:18,840
and i felt

744
00:27:22,710 --> 00:27:21,600
nothing it's like somebody big house up

745
00:27:23,990 --> 00:27:22,720
there somebody built a big house i

746
00:27:24,789 --> 00:27:24,000
didn't notice it when i pulled in here

747
00:27:26,149 --> 00:27:24,799
so

748
00:27:27,510 --> 00:27:26,159
and i rolled over and went back to sleep

749
00:27:28,950 --> 00:27:27,520
and i woke up

750
00:27:30,470 --> 00:27:28,960
again

751
00:27:32,549 --> 00:27:30,480
that night and there was a coyote

752
00:27:34,870 --> 00:27:32,559
howling near my head

753
00:27:36,710 --> 00:27:34,880
and it was so close that i don't

754
00:27:38,230 --> 00:27:36,720
understand why i couldn't see it i kind

755
00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:38,240
of did the thing where i kind of sat up

756
00:27:42,630 --> 00:27:39,840
and i looked around the sagebrush and it

757
00:27:47,590 --> 00:27:42,640
was so close

758
00:27:56,149 --> 00:27:50,870
that this like this was a dream this was

759
00:27:59,430 --> 00:27:57,669
storybook

760
00:28:01,830 --> 00:27:59,440
element right this was a character and a

761
00:28:04,389 --> 00:28:01,840
story for me as i tell this now what is

762
00:28:06,630 --> 00:28:04,399
it now eight years later like that that

763
00:28:09,430 --> 00:28:06,640
coyote was just as important as the

764
00:28:11,269 --> 00:28:09,440
rounds truck on the hill right so and

765
00:28:12,870 --> 00:28:11,279
then i went back to sleep and i woke up

766
00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:12,880
again

767
00:28:16,230 --> 00:28:14,080
and there was a bright light behind a

768
00:28:17,909 --> 00:28:16,240
bush

769
00:28:19,830 --> 00:28:17,919
and i and i did the thing where i like

770
00:28:22,149 --> 00:28:19,840
what is what is that light it didn't

771
00:28:24,149 --> 00:28:22,159
seem like a car light

772
00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:24,159
and it didn't seem like a

773
00:28:27,269 --> 00:28:25,840
flashlight it was something else it was

774
00:28:29,350 --> 00:28:27,279
some place where a car really shouldn't

775
00:28:31,590 --> 00:28:29,360
be and i and i have since been back to

776
00:28:32,870 --> 00:28:31,600
that exact spot when i when i drove back

777
00:28:35,190 --> 00:28:32,880
from texas

778
00:28:38,470 --> 00:28:35,200
i i stopped at that spot and it was

779
00:28:39,909 --> 00:28:38,480
march 10th it was eight years to the day

780
00:28:41,830 --> 00:28:39,919
i didn't realize that i was driving i

781
00:28:42,789 --> 00:28:41,840
was like this is eight years to the day

782
00:28:44,549 --> 00:28:42,799
i'm like

783
00:28:45,590 --> 00:28:44,559
i'm gonna be there this afternoon so i

784
00:28:47,110 --> 00:28:45,600
stopped there

785
00:28:50,230 --> 00:28:47,120
and it when it was

786
00:28:51,110 --> 00:28:50,240
it was cold and windy and gray and and

787
00:28:55,190 --> 00:28:51,120
and

788
00:28:57,029 --> 00:28:55,200
a total mess like a tree had been cut

789
00:28:58,710 --> 00:28:57,039
down and there was like human feces

790
00:29:01,029 --> 00:28:58,720
everywhere junk everywhere we didn't

791
00:29:02,470 --> 00:29:01,039
have any of the magic that it once had

792
00:29:03,909 --> 00:29:02,480
and it was like this it was like it

793
00:29:05,350 --> 00:29:03,919
really let me down it really brought me

794
00:29:07,909 --> 00:29:05,360
down to like be back so it was kind of

795
00:29:09,350 --> 00:29:07,919
like like oh god the site i wanted to

796
00:29:10,549 --> 00:29:09,360
have that magic to it and i just was

797
00:29:12,470 --> 00:29:10,559
like that's really

798
00:29:14,149 --> 00:29:12,480
it was gross to be like in the spot

799
00:29:15,669 --> 00:29:14,159
where i was lying

800
00:29:17,430 --> 00:29:15,679
so

801
00:29:18,750 --> 00:29:17,440
now

802
00:29:20,789 --> 00:29:18,760
back to

803
00:29:22,950 --> 00:29:20,799
2013 that night so i get up the next

804
00:29:25,350 --> 00:29:22,960
morning after these of weird events that

805
00:29:26,630 --> 00:29:25,360
night and i and i drive home and i look

806
00:29:29,110 --> 00:29:26,640
up on a map

807
00:29:31,350 --> 00:29:29,120
a google earth map and there's nothing

808
00:29:33,190 --> 00:29:31,360
on that hill and i was just there

809
00:29:34,549 --> 00:29:33,200
you know a couple weeks ago now or less

810
00:29:36,389 --> 00:29:34,559
than a couple weeks ago

811
00:29:37,750 --> 00:29:36,399
and there's nothing on that hill and

812
00:29:38,950 --> 00:29:37,760
i've been back to that site a couple

813
00:29:40,710 --> 00:29:38,960
times since then there's nothing on that

814
00:29:42,549 --> 00:29:40,720
hill but i saw a big structure like a

815
00:29:43,590 --> 00:29:42,559
huge what would been a huge house on

816
00:29:44,789 --> 00:29:43,600
that hill

817
00:29:48,630 --> 00:29:44,799
and there's nothing there there's no

818
00:29:51,110 --> 00:29:49,669
so

819
00:29:52,630 --> 00:29:51,120
when i first realized there was nothing

820
00:29:53,990 --> 00:29:52,640
there i drew a picture of it and i put

821
00:29:56,310 --> 00:29:54,000
it online and i kind of went through

822
00:29:58,389 --> 00:29:56,320
this kind of thing and then i was like

823
00:30:00,710 --> 00:29:58,399
like i had this like i remember where i

824
00:30:02,789 --> 00:30:00,720
was i was in my house i was living at in

825
00:30:04,950 --> 00:30:02,799
idaho and i was just standing near my

826
00:30:06,549 --> 00:30:04,960
desk and i had this this flash this

827
00:30:08,230 --> 00:30:06,559
psychic vision of a map with three

828
00:30:11,110 --> 00:30:08,240
points on it you know so it was a map of

829
00:30:13,269 --> 00:30:11,120
southern utah with three points in a

830
00:30:15,190 --> 00:30:13,279
straight line

831
00:30:18,950 --> 00:30:15,200
and

832
00:30:21,029 --> 00:30:18,960
knew right where it was i could see this

833
00:30:22,710 --> 00:30:21,039
vision in my mind i just click click i

834
00:30:24,310 --> 00:30:22,720
had this flash of this

835
00:30:25,350 --> 00:30:24,320
psychic image and i just sat down at the

836
00:30:27,110 --> 00:30:25,360
desk and i

837
00:30:28,950 --> 00:30:27,120
have a map programs just google maps i

838
00:30:30,310 --> 00:30:28,960
made a map and i put three points on it

839
00:30:31,669 --> 00:30:30,320
i knew which one was and i knew where

840
00:30:33,669 --> 00:30:31,679
the other one was too or there was this

841
00:30:35,669 --> 00:30:33,679
thing where i happened which like

842
00:30:37,590 --> 00:30:35,679
this sounds to tell this story sounds

843
00:30:39,269 --> 00:30:37,600
just like

844
00:30:41,029 --> 00:30:39,279
like a ufo

845
00:30:43,830 --> 00:30:41,039
abduction story i was in a tent i was

846
00:30:45,669 --> 00:30:43,840
with a friend we both woke up screaming

847
00:30:47,669 --> 00:30:45,679
to tell this story takes

848
00:30:49,510 --> 00:30:47,679
a half hour but it is so many

849
00:30:52,630 --> 00:30:49,520
synchronicities tied into that story and

850
00:30:54,630 --> 00:30:52,640
i and i actually on the same trip

851
00:30:56,230 --> 00:30:54,640
when i was driving down from where i am

852
00:30:58,549 --> 00:30:56,240
now to texas

853
00:31:00,470 --> 00:30:58,559
i stopped in that same exact spot i went

854
00:31:02,549 --> 00:31:00,480
back to that exact same spot it's in

855
00:31:05,669 --> 00:31:02,559
dolores colorado

856
00:31:05,950 --> 00:31:05,679
which is near cortez colorado

857
00:31:07,269 --> 00:31:05,960
um

858
00:31:09,029 --> 00:31:07,279
[Music]

859
00:31:11,750 --> 00:31:09,039
and the tiny town of dolores is really

860
00:31:15,750 --> 00:31:11,760
small and i slept i went to that exact

861
00:31:17,590 --> 00:31:15,760
same spot and i slept in the same spot

862
00:31:19,430 --> 00:31:17,600
that that the event happened

863
00:31:20,830 --> 00:31:19,440
which would have been

864
00:31:23,110 --> 00:31:20,840
it's

865
00:31:25,029 --> 00:31:23,120
2022 right now and that event would have

866
00:31:27,029 --> 00:31:25,039
happened in 2010 so that would have been

867
00:31:28,870 --> 00:31:27,039
12 years ago so a dozen years ago i

868
00:31:29,669 --> 00:31:28,880
slept in that spot i went back

869
00:31:32,070 --> 00:31:29,679
last

870
00:31:33,669 --> 00:31:32,080
couple weeks ago and slept in it again

871
00:31:35,830 --> 00:31:33,679
which tells you a little bit about

872
00:31:39,029 --> 00:31:35,840
myself and this how this stuff has this

873
00:31:42,710 --> 00:31:40,870
and that was at one point in the map and

874
00:31:44,149 --> 00:31:42,720
then there was another point in the

875
00:31:45,990 --> 00:31:44,159
middle

876
00:31:48,389 --> 00:31:46,000
right so there's these three points one

877
00:31:49,590 --> 00:31:48,399
two three the point in the middle

878
00:31:51,750 --> 00:31:49,600
i was like what was that and then i

879
00:31:54,149 --> 00:31:51,760
realized oh there was a point on a place

880
00:31:56,230 --> 00:31:54,159
called the bird trail road

881
00:31:58,630 --> 00:31:56,240
and i was traveling with my friend

882
00:32:00,950 --> 00:31:58,640
natasha now natasha was with me

883
00:32:02,230 --> 00:32:00,960
in dolores colorado she was in the tent

884
00:32:03,430 --> 00:32:02,240
with me

885
00:32:05,190 --> 00:32:03,440
and

886
00:32:07,350 --> 00:32:05,200
i was camping

887
00:32:09,190 --> 00:32:07,360
in the west with excuse me i was coming

888
00:32:10,470 --> 00:32:09,200
home from a ufo conference and i was

889
00:32:12,470 --> 00:32:10,480
natasha and i were driving around the

890
00:32:13,909 --> 00:32:12,480
west and camping and stuff like that in

891
00:32:15,750 --> 00:32:13,919
that trip coming home from the ufo

892
00:32:18,789 --> 00:32:15,760
conference and we were in

893
00:32:23,269 --> 00:32:18,799
um on the bertrall road on

894
00:32:27,110 --> 00:32:25,430
and

895
00:32:28,789 --> 00:32:27,120
we were as it began a beautiful night

896
00:32:32,789 --> 00:32:28,799
out under the stars

897
00:32:35,990 --> 00:32:34,389
and i

898
00:32:37,909 --> 00:32:36,000
had been driving all day and natasha's

899
00:32:39,590 --> 00:32:37,919
from germany and she had arrived a week

900
00:32:41,110 --> 00:32:39,600
earlier and she was jet-lagged and she

901
00:32:42,470 --> 00:32:41,120
kind of woke me up and said mike i can't

902
00:32:44,549 --> 00:32:42,480
sleep i need to do something what can i

903
00:32:46,230 --> 00:32:44,559
do and we're in this beautiful spot in

904
00:32:47,430 --> 00:32:46,240
this isolated part of southern utah and

905
00:32:49,029 --> 00:32:47,440
there's a kind of a road there and

906
00:32:50,470 --> 00:32:49,039
there's no traffic on the road and it's

907
00:32:52,070 --> 00:32:50,480
very very safe part of the world and i

908
00:32:54,070 --> 00:32:52,080
said take a walk it's a beautiful night

909
00:32:56,950 --> 00:32:54,080
just take a walk she went okay so she

910
00:32:59,909 --> 00:32:56,960
she walked off and as she walks off i'm

911
00:33:01,669 --> 00:32:59,919
laying there alone now

912
00:33:02,789 --> 00:33:01,679
and there's an owl in the bush near my

913
00:33:04,630 --> 00:33:02,799
head

914
00:33:07,190 --> 00:33:04,640
now to make thing like i have gone back

915
00:33:10,230 --> 00:33:07,200
and slept in that spot again that exact

916
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,070
there was an owl

917
00:33:18,230 --> 00:33:16,149
right near my head in a bush

918
00:33:20,230 --> 00:33:18,240
and it was the loudest owl i have ever

919
00:33:23,029 --> 00:33:20,240
been close to

920
00:33:24,870 --> 00:33:23,039
and and it was hooting and loud right

921
00:33:26,789 --> 00:33:24,880
near my head and i sat up and looked for

922
00:33:29,430 --> 00:33:26,799
it i could not see it

923
00:33:32,149 --> 00:33:29,440
it was so close i don't understand why i

924
00:33:35,350 --> 00:33:32,159
didn't see it in the starlight

925
00:33:36,830 --> 00:33:35,360
this plays out exactly like the coyote

926
00:33:39,909 --> 00:33:36,840
so i have these two

927
00:33:43,190 --> 00:33:39,919
mythic animals like the owl and the

928
00:33:45,590 --> 00:33:43,200
coyote so steeped in symbolism and

929
00:33:47,269 --> 00:33:45,600
mythic power

930
00:33:51,269 --> 00:33:47,279
both were so close

931
00:33:53,750 --> 00:33:51,279
and so loud but i could not see them i'm

932
00:33:55,269 --> 00:33:53,760
i speculate i don't know i speculate

933
00:33:56,549 --> 00:33:55,279
that they may have been some sort of

934
00:33:59,269 --> 00:33:56,559
psychic

935
00:34:01,830 --> 00:34:00,230
okay

936
00:34:03,430 --> 00:34:01,840
i'm lying there listening to this owl

937
00:34:04,389 --> 00:34:03,440
natasha's walking on the on the

938
00:34:06,310 --> 00:34:04,399
beautiful

939
00:34:07,830 --> 00:34:06,320
birch railroad

940
00:34:09,750 --> 00:34:07,840
and she's close she just gets a few

941
00:34:11,190 --> 00:34:09,760
hundred yards from the from where i was

942
00:34:13,589 --> 00:34:11,200
lying

943
00:34:16,149 --> 00:34:13,599
and she said it was so magical she said

944
00:34:18,149 --> 00:34:16,159
it was stars were out to be totally

945
00:34:20,069 --> 00:34:18,159
walking in this calm place she said it

946
00:34:23,990 --> 00:34:20,079
was so magical it felt like i was

947
00:34:27,909 --> 00:34:25,190
and then she looks off to the side of

948
00:34:29,190 --> 00:34:27,919
the road and there's this this glowing

949
00:34:30,629 --> 00:34:29,200
thing and she thinks someone's out there

950
00:34:31,909 --> 00:34:30,639
with a flashlight

951
00:34:33,669 --> 00:34:31,919
and she looks at it and says that's not

952
00:34:34,869 --> 00:34:33,679
no someone's

953
00:34:36,230 --> 00:34:34,879
someone's

954
00:34:38,470 --> 00:34:36,240
there's nobody out there this is like a

955
00:34:40,790 --> 00:34:38,480
this is a floating orb of light

956
00:34:43,270 --> 00:34:40,800
so this floating orb of light kind of

957
00:34:44,550 --> 00:34:43,280
floats along in the above the weeds and

958
00:34:46,550 --> 00:34:44,560
and then it goes

959
00:34:48,790 --> 00:34:46,560
grows really big and poof

960
00:34:50,550 --> 00:34:48,800
explodes and vanishes like in a big

961
00:34:51,750 --> 00:34:50,560
flash and then she's scared and she runs

962
00:34:53,750 --> 00:34:51,760
back and she wakes me up and says mike

963
00:34:55,349 --> 00:34:53,760
we gotta leave she explains what happens

964
00:34:56,790 --> 00:34:55,359
and then she leaves

965
00:34:57,910 --> 00:34:56,800
or we both leave we both load up the car

966
00:34:59,349 --> 00:34:57,920
and start driving it's like four in the

967
00:35:00,950 --> 00:34:59,359
morning or something like that

968
00:35:02,470 --> 00:35:00,960
so

969
00:35:04,069 --> 00:35:02,480
uh

970
00:35:04,950 --> 00:35:04,079
it's perfect right

971
00:35:09,109 --> 00:35:04,960
i'm

972
00:35:10,950 --> 00:35:09,119
i hear an owl simultaneously natasha

973
00:35:12,870 --> 00:35:10,960
sees a ufo a floating orb an

974
00:35:15,990 --> 00:35:12,880
unidentified flying object a floating

975
00:35:23,349 --> 00:35:16,000
orb owls ufos simultaneous it's perfect

976
00:35:28,790 --> 00:35:25,589
when these three points lined up on a

977
00:35:30,310 --> 00:35:28,800
map i tell the story in the books it

978
00:35:31,510 --> 00:35:30,320
like when i actually clicked on the maps

979
00:35:32,550 --> 00:35:31,520
and said well maybe if this one goes

980
00:35:33,910 --> 00:35:32,560
here and this one goes here and then

981
00:35:35,349 --> 00:35:33,920
when i realized they lined up and the

982
00:35:37,430 --> 00:35:35,359
one in the middle right you can take any

983
00:35:38,710 --> 00:35:37,440
two points you stretch a line between

984
00:35:41,349 --> 00:35:38,720
two points it's going to be a totally

985
00:35:43,829 --> 00:35:41,359
straight line if you

986
00:35:48,630 --> 00:35:43,839
and it's where that middle one ends up

987
00:35:52,470 --> 00:35:50,790
the the little you know you can like in

988
00:35:55,670 --> 00:35:52,480
an olden times right you turn the clock

989
00:35:57,190 --> 00:35:55,680
back like 15 years like you would you

990
00:35:59,990 --> 00:35:57,200
would have to get a really big map a

991
00:36:01,670 --> 00:36:00,000
paper map and a really sharp pencil in a

992
00:36:03,990 --> 00:36:01,680
ruler and connect these

993
00:36:05,670 --> 00:36:04,000
these three points

994
00:36:07,190 --> 00:36:05,680
and that when you zoom in that that

995
00:36:09,910 --> 00:36:07,200
pencil line might be a mile thick or

996
00:36:11,510 --> 00:36:09,920
something i could zoom in

997
00:36:13,750 --> 00:36:11,520
right on the exact spot where my

998
00:36:15,349 --> 00:36:13,760
sleeping pad was lying in the sand

999
00:36:17,510 --> 00:36:15,359
i could see the bush right next to it

1000
00:36:18,870 --> 00:36:17,520
where the owl sound was coming from i

1001
00:36:21,349 --> 00:36:18,880
could zoom in on that i could make that

1002
00:36:23,589 --> 00:36:21,359
line one pixel thick

1003
00:36:25,349 --> 00:36:23,599
and it bisected exactly where i was

1004
00:36:29,430 --> 00:36:25,359
lying in the sand and when i saw that it

1005
00:36:31,270 --> 00:36:29,440
was like my old life ended

1006
00:36:33,430 --> 00:36:31,280
just gone

1007
00:36:35,349 --> 00:36:33,440
and my new life began so all that

1008
00:36:37,109 --> 00:36:35,359
doubting all that

1009
00:36:38,710 --> 00:36:37,119
all that

1010
00:36:40,390 --> 00:36:38,720
denial

1011
00:36:43,270 --> 00:36:40,400
had ended

1012
00:36:45,109 --> 00:36:43,280
and and what happened

1013
00:36:46,390 --> 00:36:45,119
there was a tape loop

1014
00:36:48,630 --> 00:36:46,400
running

1015
00:36:52,950 --> 00:36:48,640
endlessly in my head for

1016
00:36:55,670 --> 00:36:52,960
from 2006 to 2013 and this this tape

1017
00:36:59,349 --> 00:36:55,680
loop said this cannot happen this cannot

1018
00:37:02,150 --> 00:36:59,359
happen this can not be happening this

1019
00:37:03,910 --> 00:37:02,160
can't happen

1020
00:37:05,510 --> 00:37:03,920
and that was at odds with my life

1021
00:37:07,190 --> 00:37:05,520
because it was happening these powerful

1022
00:37:08,790 --> 00:37:07,200
events were happening and when i saw

1023
00:37:11,270 --> 00:37:08,800
those three events line up on a map that

1024
00:37:14,069 --> 00:37:11,280
tape loop just got disengaged

1025
00:37:19,030 --> 00:37:14,079
and thrown away and my and i had a new

1026
00:37:24,790 --> 00:37:21,510
in 2018 i

1027
00:37:26,550 --> 00:37:24,800
did a hypnosis session with yvonne smith

1028
00:37:28,550 --> 00:37:26,560
and

1029
00:37:29,589 --> 00:37:28,560
i only wanted to look into that one

1030
00:37:33,109 --> 00:37:29,599
night

1031
00:37:37,510 --> 00:37:36,390
um highway 20 in southern utah

1032
00:37:39,829 --> 00:37:37,520
and the reason i wanted to look at there

1033
00:37:41,270 --> 00:37:39,839
was no fear associated with it all it

1034
00:37:43,829 --> 00:37:41,280
was totally a gentle experience of

1035
00:37:46,870 --> 00:37:43,839
sleeping out under the stars

1036
00:37:49,030 --> 00:37:46,880
and she so here's a synchronicity so so

1037
00:37:50,390 --> 00:37:49,040
i contact her i send her an email and i

1038
00:37:53,430 --> 00:37:50,400
said i'm going to be in california

1039
00:37:55,190 --> 00:37:53,440
on these dates in august of 2018

1040
00:37:57,190 --> 00:37:55,200
which was a few weeks away and i said i

1041
00:37:59,109 --> 00:37:57,200
would love to have a session a hypnosis

1042
00:38:01,109 --> 00:37:59,119
session with you and she said and i'd

1043
00:38:02,390 --> 00:38:01,119
met yvonne a few times over the years at

1044
00:38:04,790 --> 00:38:02,400
conferences and she got back to me and

1045
00:38:07,750 --> 00:38:04,800
she said mike what a nice surprise that

1046
00:38:10,550 --> 00:38:07,760
you contacted me i just started reading

1047
00:38:11,670 --> 00:38:10,560
your book today

1048
00:38:14,150 --> 00:38:11,680
so

1049
00:38:16,470 --> 00:38:14,160
owl synchronicity ufo contact i think

1050
00:38:18,069 --> 00:38:16,480
that counts as like a powerful like

1051
00:38:21,109 --> 00:38:18,079
synthesis of those threes all

1052
00:38:23,589 --> 00:38:21,119
synchronicities and ufos so i

1053
00:38:25,589 --> 00:38:23,599
i go to her office

1054
00:38:27,430 --> 00:38:25,599
and we talk about you know my issues and

1055
00:38:28,790 --> 00:38:27,440
what i want to try to uncover and i just

1056
00:38:30,470 --> 00:38:28,800
want to focus on that one night there's

1057
00:38:31,589 --> 00:38:30,480
no fear it was kind of a mysterious

1058
00:38:32,950 --> 00:38:31,599
night

1059
00:38:37,349 --> 00:38:32,960
and

1060
00:38:39,670 --> 00:38:37,359
when i'm under

1061
00:38:41,430 --> 00:38:39,680
like in this vulnerable place

1062
00:38:44,069 --> 00:38:41,440
in this hypnotic transplant i'm under

1063
00:38:46,470 --> 00:38:44,079
can you um can you just like say like

1064
00:38:47,750 --> 00:38:46,480
mike what's up with the owls like just

1065
00:38:50,550 --> 00:38:47,760
ask me that i'm just curious what i'll

1066
00:38:51,990 --> 00:38:50,560
say she said great no problems also

1067
00:38:56,710 --> 00:38:52,000
so we go through hypnotic abduct

1068
00:38:59,349 --> 00:38:56,720
induction and and and i'm i'm there

1069
00:39:01,270 --> 00:38:59,359
on the side of the highway

1070
00:39:02,550 --> 00:39:01,280
in highway 20 and she's like she's like

1071
00:39:04,150 --> 00:39:02,560
okay like

1072
00:39:05,030 --> 00:39:04,160
explain what's happening and i said well

1073
00:39:07,430 --> 00:39:05,040
i'm

1074
00:39:09,589 --> 00:39:07,440
lying in

1075
00:39:11,670 --> 00:39:09,599
on the next to my car my car is right

1076
00:39:13,670 --> 00:39:11,680
there and it's pretty and it's cold and

1077
00:39:15,349 --> 00:39:13,680
my head's on the pillow and

1078
00:39:17,190 --> 00:39:15,359
like nothing much was happening okay

1079
00:39:19,270 --> 00:39:17,200
just what else happens

1080
00:39:20,710 --> 00:39:19,280
and then i go it's them

1081
00:39:23,510 --> 00:39:20,720
it's them

1082
00:39:26,230 --> 00:39:25,030
and i was describing the light behind

1083
00:39:28,150 --> 00:39:26,240
the tree

1084
00:39:32,150 --> 00:39:28,160
behind the bush i said it's them i know

1085
00:39:36,550 --> 00:39:33,829
and the next thing i know is i'm looking

1086
00:39:38,230 --> 00:39:36,560
down at this big round structure

1087
00:39:39,990 --> 00:39:38,240
like this big round structure like i'm

1088
00:39:41,910 --> 00:39:40,000
looking down at it this big round huge

1089
00:39:43,270 --> 00:39:41,920
round thing is just black again then in

1090
00:39:44,710 --> 00:39:43,280
the night time and i'm looking down at

1091
00:39:46,390 --> 00:39:44,720
it and i'm above it i'm looking down and

1092
00:39:48,150 --> 00:39:46,400
she's like i'm looking down at this

1093
00:39:51,430 --> 00:39:48,160
thing and i i and i

1094
00:39:52,790 --> 00:39:51,440
i think i'm still in my sleeping bag

1095
00:39:55,190 --> 00:39:52,800
and she goes

1096
00:39:57,109 --> 00:39:55,200
mike are you

1097
00:39:59,349 --> 00:39:57,119
are you out of body and i don't know

1098
00:40:00,310 --> 00:39:59,359
like all i know is i'm looking down at

1099
00:40:01,430 --> 00:40:00,320
this thing and i think i'm still in the

1100
00:40:04,390 --> 00:40:01,440
sleeping bag the next thing i know i'm

1101
00:40:07,270 --> 00:40:04,400
walking in this curved hallway

1102
00:40:08,470 --> 00:40:07,280
and now granted this is hypnosis this is

1103
00:40:10,309 --> 00:40:08,480
this is i'm seeing these things in

1104
00:40:11,349 --> 00:40:10,319
little flashes i'm saying things stuff

1105
00:40:14,150 --> 00:40:11,359
is coming out of my mouth i don't know

1106
00:40:17,109 --> 00:40:14,160
where it's coming from i'm so cautious

1107
00:40:21,670 --> 00:40:17,119
to take this literally but i'll i'm

1108
00:40:25,589 --> 00:40:22,829
i'm walking down the

1109
00:40:26,950 --> 00:40:25,599
hallway and i look to my and the first

1110
00:40:28,069 --> 00:40:26,960
thing i notice i'm six foot tall the

1111
00:40:30,150 --> 00:40:28,079
first thing i noticed is like i'm not

1112
00:40:31,430 --> 00:40:30,160
tall like i washed i'm like i recognize

1113
00:40:32,630 --> 00:40:31,440
like i'm not tall and i look to my right

1114
00:40:33,910 --> 00:40:32,640
and there's this little gray being and

1115
00:40:35,030 --> 00:40:33,920
it's the same height as me and i look to

1116
00:40:36,309 --> 00:40:35,040
my left and there's this little gray

1117
00:40:38,150 --> 00:40:36,319
being at the same height as me where all

1118
00:40:39,430 --> 00:40:38,160
three of us are walking down and and i

1119
00:40:41,270 --> 00:40:39,440
look down on my hands and i've got these

1120
00:40:43,190 --> 00:40:41,280
long fingers and i and i got this like

1121
00:40:45,829 --> 00:40:43,200
skinny space suit on and i and i like

1122
00:40:47,750 --> 00:40:45,839
tell yvonne i'm like i i i think i'm a

1123
00:40:49,990 --> 00:40:47,760
grey alien

1124
00:40:53,990 --> 00:40:50,000
and she's she doesn't skip a beaches and

1125
00:40:59,190 --> 00:40:57,270
and then i'm in this conference room

1126
00:41:00,950 --> 00:40:59,200
and it's this so here this is weird like

1127
00:41:02,550 --> 00:41:00,960
this conference room does not exist on a

1128
00:41:04,710 --> 00:41:02,560
flying saucer right so the implication

1129
00:41:06,950 --> 00:41:04,720
is that i somehow got like taken out of

1130
00:41:08,950 --> 00:41:06,960
my physical body and my etheric body is

1131
00:41:11,349 --> 00:41:08,960
like floating above the ufo i get sucked

1132
00:41:12,790 --> 00:41:11,359
into the ufo i end up like like it felt

1133
00:41:14,230 --> 00:41:12,800
like i was in a rubber suit like a

1134
00:41:15,990 --> 00:41:14,240
rubber suit of a grey alien was waiting

1135
00:41:17,190 --> 00:41:16,000
for me and it just i just went right in

1136
00:41:18,470 --> 00:41:17,200
the rubber suit and was walking down the

1137
00:41:19,510 --> 00:41:18,480
hall that's what it felt like i don't

1138
00:41:20,870 --> 00:41:19,520
know if that's true or not but that's

1139
00:41:22,230 --> 00:41:20,880
what it felt like

1140
00:41:23,349 --> 00:41:22,240
so uh so

1141
00:41:25,030 --> 00:41:23,359
um

1142
00:41:26,790 --> 00:41:25,040
so i'm in this conference room and i in

1143
00:41:28,630 --> 00:41:26,800
this conference room is like it's got

1144
00:41:29,910 --> 00:41:28,640
ugly carpeting and there's beige walls

1145
00:41:31,349 --> 00:41:29,920
and it's fluorescent lit there's these

1146
00:41:32,950 --> 00:41:31,359
folding tables and i'm standing there

1147
00:41:34,309 --> 00:41:32,960
and i'm like what am i doing here like

1148
00:41:36,550 --> 00:41:34,319
i'm this great alien standing there i'm

1149
00:41:38,470 --> 00:41:36,560
like why am i here

1150
00:41:39,750 --> 00:41:38,480
and there's this folding table with like

1151
00:41:42,550 --> 00:41:39,760
what's felt like

1152
00:41:44,230 --> 00:41:42,560
like eight or so beings eight to ten

1153
00:41:45,670 --> 00:41:44,240
beings on the other side of the table i

1154
00:41:48,710 --> 00:41:45,680
couldn't really see them but i get the

1155
00:41:51,510 --> 00:41:48,720
strong impression they were great beings

1156
00:41:53,270 --> 00:41:51,520
and i'm like why am i here

1157
00:41:54,470 --> 00:41:53,280
and they're like you volunteered for

1158
00:41:55,510 --> 00:41:54,480
this

1159
00:41:56,630 --> 00:41:55,520
i'm like

1160
00:41:58,069 --> 00:41:56,640
what does that mean i volunteered for

1161
00:42:00,950 --> 00:41:58,079
this why am i here

1162
00:42:02,550 --> 00:42:00,960
i said now is the time

1163
00:42:04,230 --> 00:42:02,560
what does that mean it felt like it got

1164
00:42:05,589 --> 00:42:04,240
stuck like i just kept asking the same

1165
00:42:06,870 --> 00:42:05,599
questions why am i here you volunteered

1166
00:42:07,910 --> 00:42:06,880
for this and i just couldn't get i

1167
00:42:10,069 --> 00:42:07,920
couldn't get past that and all of a

1168
00:42:12,630 --> 00:42:10,079
sudden i i just like

1169
00:42:14,309 --> 00:42:12,640
like i had this like like like i it

1170
00:42:15,829 --> 00:42:14,319
sounds like i turned into william

1171
00:42:18,630 --> 00:42:15,839
shatner and i made this like totally

1172
00:42:20,309 --> 00:42:18,640
impassioned like fiery speech and i'm

1173
00:42:23,349 --> 00:42:20,319
like i'm like

1174
00:42:25,030 --> 00:42:23,359
i'm like you never told me

1175
00:42:26,950 --> 00:42:25,040
there would be pain you never told me

1176
00:42:29,829 --> 00:42:26,960
there would be loneliness you never told

1177
00:42:31,990 --> 00:42:29,839
me about sorrow you never told me you

1178
00:42:33,670 --> 00:42:32,000
never told me it would be this hard

1179
00:42:35,589 --> 00:42:33,680
being here

1180
00:42:38,470 --> 00:42:35,599
and i'm crying and it's it's like it's

1181
00:42:41,349 --> 00:42:38,480
really tough to listen to that audio i

1182
00:42:44,870 --> 00:42:41,359
transcribed it and it's it's like it's

1183
00:42:46,710 --> 00:42:44,880
it's rough because i'm like so emotional

1184
00:42:48,390 --> 00:42:46,720
and it plays out the implication is that

1185
00:42:52,710 --> 00:42:48,400
i

1186
00:42:54,790 --> 00:42:52,720
as

1187
00:42:56,309 --> 00:42:54,800
a being somewhere else like not here

1188
00:42:58,550 --> 00:42:56,319
like not like some other dimension and

1189
00:43:02,069 --> 00:42:58,560
then and then somehow

1190
00:43:03,030 --> 00:43:02,079
i chose to incarnate here in this life

1191
00:43:06,790 --> 00:43:03,040
now

1192
00:43:12,790 --> 00:43:07,910
and

1193
00:43:14,309 --> 00:43:12,800
they were saying now is the time

1194
00:43:17,109 --> 00:43:14,319
and then

1195
00:43:18,470 --> 00:43:17,119
i like i like it felt like i was i was

1196
00:43:20,150 --> 00:43:18,480
so i'm on the couch i'm on yvonne's

1197
00:43:21,270 --> 00:43:20,160
couch and i felt like i deflated it felt

1198
00:43:28,150 --> 00:43:21,280
like

1199
00:43:32,710 --> 00:43:29,910
and i was i was out i was back in the

1200
00:43:35,510 --> 00:43:33,990
we talked for a little bit and she asked

1201
00:43:36,710 --> 00:43:35,520
some questions and i was like i don't

1202
00:43:39,190 --> 00:43:36,720
know i don't know what to make of this

1203
00:43:40,710 --> 00:43:39,200
like it's wow like i like and still like

1204
00:43:43,270 --> 00:43:40,720
again like

1205
00:43:45,910 --> 00:43:43,280
is this a story is this real is this

1206
00:43:47,750 --> 00:43:45,920
metaphoric

1207
00:43:51,030 --> 00:43:47,760
and then she says and mike

1208
00:43:53,109 --> 00:43:51,040
what is your connection to owls

1209
00:43:55,829 --> 00:43:53,119
and without skipping a beat i say and

1210
00:43:58,630 --> 00:43:55,839
i've rolled this story out of but i've

1211
00:44:01,030 --> 00:43:58,640
told this straight enough and i can just

1212
00:44:02,630 --> 00:44:01,040
so when you listen to hypnosis

1213
00:44:04,950 --> 00:44:02,640
like the person answers like really

1214
00:44:08,790 --> 00:44:04,960
quietly they answer in really short

1215
00:44:10,390 --> 00:44:08,800
little sentences there's long pauses

1216
00:44:12,390 --> 00:44:10,400
and she asked me and mike what is your

1217
00:44:14,150 --> 00:44:12,400
connection to owls and i said the owls

1218
00:44:17,349 --> 00:44:14,160
aren't important

1219
00:44:20,230 --> 00:44:17,359
the owls are a symbol on the door

1220
00:44:22,069 --> 00:44:20,240
it is the door that is important

1221
00:44:23,270 --> 00:44:22,079
the owl is the correct symbol for the

1222
00:44:26,470 --> 00:44:23,280
door

1223
00:44:30,390 --> 00:44:26,480
but the owl is not important

1224
00:44:37,589 --> 00:44:33,750
in this claustrophobic little hallway

1225
00:44:42,309 --> 00:44:37,599
and everything on that side of the door

1226
00:44:45,349 --> 00:44:44,230
and that's that's all i got and i came

1227
00:44:47,030 --> 00:44:45,359
out of it and

1228
00:44:50,630 --> 00:44:47,040
now

1229
00:44:52,470 --> 00:44:50,640
believe in this story it's a powerful

1230
00:44:55,349 --> 00:44:52,480
story i recognize that it's a powerful

1231
00:44:58,550 --> 00:44:55,359
story is it true wow i can't say i

1232
00:45:00,230 --> 00:44:58,560
really truly can't say but

1233
00:45:02,470 --> 00:45:00,240
that happened on

1234
00:45:04,230 --> 00:45:02,480
this that event where we're exploring

1235
00:45:07,109 --> 00:45:04,240
the big structure on the hill in

1236
00:45:10,950 --> 00:45:07,119
southern utah happened on march 10th

1237
00:45:15,430 --> 00:45:12,710
and if if it happened after midnight it

1238
00:45:17,030 --> 00:45:15,440
would have been march 11 2013 when

1239
00:45:18,630 --> 00:45:17,040
actually all the powerful stuff took

1240
00:45:21,589 --> 00:45:18,640
place

1241
00:45:23,109 --> 00:45:21,599
i started writing my first book

1242
00:45:25,190 --> 00:45:23,119
the messengers

1243
00:45:27,990 --> 00:45:25,200
on march 12th

1244
00:45:30,710 --> 00:45:28,000
so basically less than 24 up 24 hours

1245
00:45:33,670 --> 00:45:30,720
later i started writing that book and

1246
00:45:35,430 --> 00:45:33,680
that book

1247
00:45:36,230 --> 00:45:35,440
changed my life

1248
00:45:38,390 --> 00:45:36,240
so

1249
00:45:39,670 --> 00:45:38,400
you you asked like do you like yo what

1250
00:45:41,430 --> 00:45:39,680
do you how do you feel chosen do you

1251
00:45:43,030 --> 00:45:41,440
feel chosen and i feel so like this is

1252
00:45:45,430 --> 00:45:43,040
really complicated right so i don't know

1253
00:45:47,030 --> 00:45:45,440
whether i volunteered for this in some

1254
00:45:49,270 --> 00:45:47,040
other incarnation that's and that's a

1255
00:45:51,510 --> 00:45:49,280
nice story i have no idea whether it's

1256
00:45:52,950 --> 00:45:51,520
true i do not feel like i lived some

1257
00:45:55,910 --> 00:45:52,960
previous life in some of the realm i

1258
00:45:58,230 --> 00:45:55,920
feel like i'm me here now grounded to

1259
00:46:01,109 --> 00:45:58,240
this earth in my existence in my family

1260
00:46:02,390 --> 00:46:01,119
and like normal things i'm here

1261
00:46:05,190 --> 00:46:02,400
but

1262
00:46:07,750 --> 00:46:05,200
that's that is a powerful thing like

1263
00:46:09,910 --> 00:46:07,760
that event happened in 2013

1264
00:46:11,910 --> 00:46:09,920
i did not realize

1265
00:46:14,550 --> 00:46:11,920
until

1266
00:46:16,950 --> 00:46:14,560
2018 actually well after the hypnosis

1267
00:46:18,309 --> 00:46:16,960
session like like mr stupid finally put

1268
00:46:19,349 --> 00:46:18,319
all these things together

1269
00:46:21,270 --> 00:46:19,359
um

1270
00:46:23,190 --> 00:46:21,280
so it was 13 to

1271
00:46:24,230 --> 00:46:23,200
9 that's like six years so six years

1272
00:46:27,270 --> 00:46:24,240
later

1273
00:46:29,750 --> 00:46:27,280
i realized like i started the book

1274
00:46:32,550 --> 00:46:29,760
less than 48 hours from when i pulled

1275
00:46:34,390 --> 00:46:32,560
into that parking spot in southern utah

1276
00:46:36,150 --> 00:46:34,400
and had that powerful experience that

1277
00:46:38,470 --> 00:46:36,160
lined up on a map that had psychic

1278
00:46:41,030 --> 00:46:38,480
visions connected to it and that later

1279
00:46:43,109 --> 00:46:41,040
under hypnosis a tale i don't know

1280
00:46:45,270 --> 00:46:43,119
whether to trust emerged but that was

1281
00:46:48,470 --> 00:46:45,280
the genesis of the book there that was

1282
00:46:49,270 --> 00:46:48,480
an incredibly long answer to of to a

1283
00:46:59,670 --> 00:46:49,280
a

1284
00:47:01,349 --> 00:46:59,680
i think just listening to uh

1285
00:47:04,550 --> 00:47:01,359
the conviction and you telling it and

1286
00:47:05,349 --> 00:47:04,560
how emotion emotionally impactful it was

1287
00:47:06,870 --> 00:47:05,359
you know

1288
00:47:08,470 --> 00:47:06,880
it was real

1289
00:47:11,270 --> 00:47:08,480
you know in what

1290
00:47:13,190 --> 00:47:11,280
sense maybe you don't know but

1291
00:47:15,270 --> 00:47:13,200
uh it was real

1292
00:47:16,790 --> 00:47:15,280
because it affected you and i think you

1293
00:47:17,670 --> 00:47:16,800
know to me that's

1294
00:47:19,670 --> 00:47:17,680
uh

1295
00:47:22,470 --> 00:47:19,680
what real is and and i know what you

1296
00:47:24,470 --> 00:47:22,480
mean with the long stories um my the

1297
00:47:27,829 --> 00:47:24,480
reason i'm here doing this right now and

1298
00:47:29,109 --> 00:47:27,839
even talking to you is is because of

1299
00:47:30,549 --> 00:47:29,119
the main

1300
00:47:33,510 --> 00:47:30,559
um

1301
00:47:36,150 --> 00:47:33,520
you know experience that i had that

1302
00:47:38,150 --> 00:47:36,160
where i saw two big bright lights that

1303
00:47:40,069 --> 00:47:38,160
were made of some weird stuff that were

1304
00:47:41,190 --> 00:47:40,079
really close to me and in the middle of

1305
00:47:43,510 --> 00:47:41,200
those

1306
00:47:44,710 --> 00:47:43,520
i experienced a real dramatic

1307
00:47:47,510 --> 00:47:44,720
family thing

1308
00:47:49,190 --> 00:47:47,520
that i dreamt about years before

1309
00:47:51,030 --> 00:47:49,200
that came true

1310
00:47:54,390 --> 00:47:51,040
you know um

1311
00:47:56,790 --> 00:47:54,400
and it's really hard to

1312
00:47:58,150 --> 00:47:56,800
just toss something like that aside and

1313
00:47:59,910 --> 00:47:58,160
and

1314
00:48:01,589 --> 00:47:59,920
you know think well this is just some

1315
00:48:04,150 --> 00:48:01,599
weird thing that happened you know

1316
00:48:06,390 --> 00:48:04,160
because there's too many things that add

1317
00:48:08,630 --> 00:48:06,400
up in line up

1318
00:48:11,190 --> 00:48:08,640
that if you start to you know kind of

1319
00:48:13,349 --> 00:48:11,200
drift off into that mentality of this is

1320
00:48:14,390 --> 00:48:13,359
just happenstance another

1321
00:48:16,790 --> 00:48:14,400
part

1322
00:48:19,030 --> 00:48:16,800
of the experience comes in and says yeah

1323
00:48:21,190 --> 00:48:19,040
but then how did this happen or how did

1324
00:48:23,430 --> 00:48:21,200
that happen you know and it kind of

1325
00:48:26,390 --> 00:48:23,440
makes it impossible to brush off i've

1326
00:48:29,750 --> 00:48:26,400
said before like with my mate experience

1327
00:48:31,430 --> 00:48:29,760
that if it i had just seen these two

1328
00:48:34,150 --> 00:48:31,440
you know bright

1329
00:48:35,910 --> 00:48:34,160
orb lights or whatever i don't know what

1330
00:48:36,950 --> 00:48:35,920
to call them i guess but

1331
00:48:38,630 --> 00:48:36,960
um

1332
00:48:40,230 --> 00:48:38,640
if i just saw those

1333
00:48:42,950 --> 00:48:40,240
and i didn't have that

1334
00:48:45,349 --> 00:48:42,960
dream come true which was

1335
00:48:47,750 --> 00:48:45,359
uh no way of denying it like that when i

1336
00:48:49,670 --> 00:48:47,760
had the dream like you know stuck with

1337
00:48:51,349 --> 00:48:49,680
me all day the emotions sat with you one

1338
00:48:53,670 --> 00:48:51,359
of those big dreams so when this was

1339
00:48:56,309 --> 00:48:53,680
coming to fruition it was you know i was

1340
00:48:57,910 --> 00:48:56,319
in those that moment where i just read

1341
00:48:59,270 --> 00:48:57,920
in your book earlier where you know

1342
00:49:00,710 --> 00:48:59,280
you're outside of yourself and you're

1343
00:49:02,630 --> 00:49:00,720
kind of watching it happen in slow

1344
00:49:04,790 --> 00:49:02,640
motion and i couldn't even really do

1345
00:49:06,710 --> 00:49:04,800
anything about it you know

1346
00:49:09,349 --> 00:49:06,720
and then one this whole experience is

1347
00:49:11,589 --> 00:49:09,359
wrapped up it's just uh

1348
00:49:13,510 --> 00:49:11,599
you know without that happening

1349
00:49:15,510 --> 00:49:13,520
maybe i would have just saw them as it's

1350
00:49:17,750 --> 00:49:15,520
just lights and uh

1351
00:49:19,829 --> 00:49:17,760
some weird thing

1352
00:49:22,470 --> 00:49:19,839
but with that coming true that

1353
00:49:24,069 --> 00:49:22,480
that that odd interpersonal real thing

1354
00:49:28,470 --> 00:49:24,079
you can't

1355
00:49:29,430 --> 00:49:28,480
reaches down into your core and and guts

1356
00:49:36,470 --> 00:49:29,440
you

1357
00:49:39,270 --> 00:49:36,480
um

1358
00:49:41,349 --> 00:49:39,280
now how to move on with that i'm still

1359
00:49:43,750 --> 00:49:41,359
figuring that out you know i think i'm

1360
00:49:46,870 --> 00:49:43,760
in the part where i'm having that that

1361
00:49:49,270 --> 00:49:46,880
inner battle of uh not denying it

1362
00:49:51,109 --> 00:49:49,280
but um

1363
00:49:54,230 --> 00:49:51,119
you know okay so what happened so now

1364
00:49:55,430 --> 00:49:54,240
what what am i supposed to do you know

1365
00:49:56,470 --> 00:49:55,440
you know

1366
00:49:59,190 --> 00:49:56,480
what

1367
00:50:00,069 --> 00:49:59,200
i can't make more things happen you know

1368
00:50:02,549 --> 00:50:00,079
i can't

1369
00:50:04,549 --> 00:50:02,559
any

1370
00:50:07,270 --> 00:50:04,559
like you're just i'm just i feel like

1371
00:50:09,589 --> 00:50:07,280
i'm in a purgatory so to speak you know

1372
00:50:10,470 --> 00:50:09,599
of this okay so this thing happened to

1373
00:50:13,190 --> 00:50:10,480
me

1374
00:50:14,470 --> 00:50:13,200
and i still have to live my life i still

1375
00:50:16,790 --> 00:50:14,480
have to

1376
00:50:19,030 --> 00:50:16,800
do certain things or whatever you know

1377
00:50:21,750 --> 00:50:19,040
and take care of myself but

1378
00:50:22,630 --> 00:50:21,760
um and i research like a madman for sure

1379
00:50:24,710 --> 00:50:22,640
but

1380
00:50:27,829 --> 00:50:24,720
um just searching for that enlightenment

1381
00:50:29,190 --> 00:50:27,839
and that reason of the of why or that

1382
00:50:30,710 --> 00:50:29,200
answer to why

1383
00:50:33,349 --> 00:50:30,720
you know so

1384
00:50:35,430 --> 00:50:33,359
um it sounds like maybe

1385
00:50:37,349 --> 00:50:35,440
you know with a little patience and just

1386
00:50:39,349 --> 00:50:37,359
continuing to be open and living your

1387
00:50:41,109 --> 00:50:39,359
life maybe that'll

1388
00:50:42,470 --> 00:50:41,119
that'll be shown to me at some point i

1389
00:50:44,630 --> 00:50:42,480
don't know

1390
00:50:46,549 --> 00:50:44,640
enough of me talking sorry i will point

1391
00:50:49,990 --> 00:50:46,559
out that you are hosting a

1392
00:50:51,990 --> 00:50:50,000
podcast on exactly this subject so that

1393
00:50:54,390 --> 00:50:52,000
that tells me a little something

1394
00:50:55,670 --> 00:50:54,400
yeah that could be well

1395
00:50:58,549 --> 00:50:55,680
yeah

1396
00:51:00,549 --> 00:50:58,559
we'll see

1397
00:51:03,349 --> 00:51:00,559
absolutely you know there's along those

1398
00:51:05,270 --> 00:51:03,359
lines you know it it the way that

1399
00:51:08,390 --> 00:51:05,280
it's interesting

1400
00:51:10,870 --> 00:51:08,400
i you know i love that story and mike

1401
00:51:13,349 --> 00:51:10,880
and i've read it i've heard i've heard

1402
00:51:15,910 --> 00:51:13,359
it from you and

1403
00:51:16,710 --> 00:51:15,920
there's so many it's really impactful

1404
00:51:18,470 --> 00:51:16,720
and

1405
00:51:19,349 --> 00:51:18,480
you know

1406
00:51:22,870 --> 00:51:19,359
one of

1407
00:51:25,430 --> 00:51:22,880
the many amazing things about it is the

1408
00:51:27,190 --> 00:51:25,440
a the concept of of these kind of

1409
00:51:29,750 --> 00:51:27,200
incarnational decisions or something

1410
00:51:30,710 --> 00:51:29,760
like that and even outside of that that

1411
00:51:31,670 --> 00:51:30,720
there's

1412
00:51:33,589 --> 00:51:31,680
you know

1413
00:51:35,829 --> 00:51:33,599
alternate ideas of

1414
00:51:37,109 --> 00:51:35,839
or that could even overlap with that in

1415
00:51:40,150 --> 00:51:37,119
terms of

1416
00:51:42,390 --> 00:51:40,160
the kind of time bending recursiveness

1417
00:51:45,190 --> 00:51:42,400
or retro causal situation where it's

1418
00:51:47,349 --> 00:51:45,200
like did that happen because on some

1419
00:51:49,430 --> 00:51:47,359
level reality knew that we were going to

1420
00:51:52,069 --> 00:51:49,440
be doing this later or something like

1421
00:51:54,309 --> 00:51:52,079
that you know what i mean because yeah

1422
00:51:55,829 --> 00:51:54,319
when you're in a situation yeah magic

1423
00:51:57,990 --> 00:51:55,839
yeah

1424
00:52:00,790 --> 00:51:58,000
because sometimes it really feels when

1425
00:52:02,790 --> 00:52:00,800
you're in that situation as if time

1426
00:52:05,910 --> 00:52:02,800
either freezes or it slows down or it

1427
00:52:07,589 --> 00:52:05,920
speeds up or somehow it's it's it's way

1428
00:52:10,309 --> 00:52:07,599
more elastic

1429
00:52:12,309 --> 00:52:10,319
and then when as so often is the case

1430
00:52:13,670 --> 00:52:12,319
you know mike you've had

1431
00:52:14,790 --> 00:52:13,680
the you're

1432
00:52:17,430 --> 00:52:14,800
you are

1433
00:52:19,589 --> 00:52:17,440
you've been opening up to the overlaps

1434
00:52:22,309 --> 00:52:19,599
with dream archetypal

1435
00:52:23,990 --> 00:52:22,319
uh symbolism and dreams in general and

1436
00:52:26,950 --> 00:52:24,000
sean you were talking about how

1437
00:52:29,510 --> 00:52:26,960
precognitive dreams kind of underlined

1438
00:52:32,790 --> 00:52:29,520
your like your experiences and part of

1439
00:52:34,950 --> 00:52:32,800
how you knew that they were real it was

1440
00:52:37,030 --> 00:52:34,960
you know that's the classic wonderful

1441
00:52:38,230 --> 00:52:37,040
conundrum of this high strangeness is

1442
00:52:39,670 --> 00:52:38,240
that you knew that they were quote

1443
00:52:41,910 --> 00:52:39,680
unquote real i'm not going to do the

1444
00:52:43,670 --> 00:52:41,920
bunny ears again because

1445
00:52:45,349 --> 00:52:43,680
of something

1446
00:52:47,910 --> 00:52:45,359
a precognitive dream

1447
00:52:50,549 --> 00:52:47,920
that many people would conceive consider

1448
00:52:54,069 --> 00:52:50,559
deeply unreal right

1449
00:52:57,109 --> 00:52:54,079
but it but it again it it gave you a a

1450
00:53:00,390 --> 00:52:57,119
retroactive association where you knew

1451
00:53:02,309 --> 00:53:00,400
precognitively that somehow

1452
00:53:05,030 --> 00:53:02,319
not necessarily that everything's set in

1453
00:53:07,910 --> 00:53:05,040
stone but then but that there is

1454
00:53:10,069 --> 00:53:07,920
that maybe time that sense of present is

1455
00:53:12,390 --> 00:53:10,079
longer than we think or something i'm

1456
00:53:13,910 --> 00:53:12,400
not sure what it is right but along

1457
00:53:15,990 --> 00:53:13,920
these lines this is a super long-winded

1458
00:53:18,150 --> 00:53:16,000
way of asking this question i heard jeff

1459
00:53:20,150 --> 00:53:18,160
kreipel we both did i think mike we

1460
00:53:21,750 --> 00:53:20,160
heard jeff kreipel talking the other day

1461
00:53:24,470 --> 00:53:21,760
about the importance of writing your

1462
00:53:26,069 --> 00:53:24,480
story so that you're not being written

1463
00:53:28,630 --> 00:53:26,079
there's a quote from him that i thought

1464
00:53:30,150 --> 00:53:28,640
was particularly interesting with these

1465
00:53:33,910 --> 00:53:30,160
synchronicities

1466
00:53:35,510 --> 00:53:33,920
and these these deep alignments

1467
00:53:37,510 --> 00:53:35,520
it often points for some people at a

1468
00:53:39,109 --> 00:53:37,520
hidden design like what you're just

1469
00:53:41,349 --> 00:53:39,119
saying that we're not necessarily

1470
00:53:44,309 --> 00:53:41,359
completely privy to but

1471
00:53:46,710 --> 00:53:44,319
but we have we sometimes feel like we

1472
00:53:48,309 --> 00:53:46,720
have some agency to it like like when

1473
00:53:50,470 --> 00:53:48,319
you are speaking

1474
00:53:52,309 --> 00:53:50,480
within your regressed state

1475
00:53:54,549 --> 00:53:52,319
these days how do you think about those

1476
00:53:57,990 --> 00:53:54,559
issues of free will and agency with

1477
00:53:59,750 --> 00:53:58,000
regard to um the messaging and these

1478
00:54:01,349 --> 00:53:59,760
experiences

1479
00:54:03,910 --> 00:54:01,359
do you have

1480
00:54:05,670 --> 00:54:03,920
yeah just like can you talk a little bit

1481
00:54:07,349 --> 00:54:05,680
about free will and agency

1482
00:54:09,510 --> 00:54:07,359
well i mean i worry sometimes that like

1483
00:54:11,510 --> 00:54:09,520
i'm somebody else's puppet you know like

1484
00:54:12,390 --> 00:54:11,520
why am i doing this like am i like you

1485
00:54:13,910 --> 00:54:12,400
know like i just feel like there's

1486
00:54:15,670 --> 00:54:13,920
someone pulling the strings and i have

1487
00:54:16,870 --> 00:54:15,680
no control over it at all at the same

1488
00:54:19,190 --> 00:54:16,880
time

1489
00:54:24,069 --> 00:54:21,109
i do recognize that there's like a oh

1490
00:54:25,910 --> 00:54:24,079
like these terms like the higher self is

1491
00:54:27,190 --> 00:54:25,920
a nice term right we can all sort of tap

1492
00:54:29,030 --> 00:54:27,200
in and understand what that might or

1493
00:54:32,150 --> 00:54:29,040
might not mean it's a very simple way to

1494
00:54:33,190 --> 00:54:32,160
like but there's this or best self

1495
00:54:38,069 --> 00:54:33,200
um

1496
00:54:41,190 --> 00:54:39,270
again

1497
00:54:44,150 --> 00:54:41,200
snipping off that old world

1498
00:54:46,630 --> 00:54:44,160
don't know that that previous life

1499
00:54:48,230 --> 00:54:46,640
you know like one life has to die

1500
00:54:50,309 --> 00:54:48,240
and then you're reborn into another life

1501
00:54:53,670 --> 00:54:50,319
that's a metaphor but but it rings true

1502
00:54:55,349 --> 00:54:53,680
for a lot of this stuff so that happened

1503
00:54:58,150 --> 00:54:55,359
when i saw those three things line up on

1504
00:54:59,349 --> 00:54:58,160
the map and and it's in my old life

1505
00:55:02,549 --> 00:54:59,359
ended

1506
00:55:05,030 --> 00:55:02,559
and this new life began and it was much

1507
00:55:06,950 --> 00:55:05,040
better because that that

1508
00:55:09,190 --> 00:55:06,960
ever-present tape loop

1509
00:55:11,190 --> 00:55:09,200
had been disengaged

1510
00:55:13,990 --> 00:55:11,200
so

1511
00:55:37,270 --> 00:55:15,990
i

1512
00:55:38,870 --> 00:55:37,280
we turn a corner and the guy ben would

1513
00:55:41,910 --> 00:55:38,880
be standing there and my friends would

1514
00:55:45,270 --> 00:55:43,510
and i and i recognize i remember that

1515
00:55:46,549 --> 00:55:45,280
like that feeling like dude

1516
00:55:48,150 --> 00:55:46,559
and that was kind of a common thing

1517
00:55:49,670 --> 00:55:48,160
where people like what is up with you

1518
00:55:51,030 --> 00:55:49,680
like it's like there's this weird thing

1519
00:55:52,309 --> 00:55:51,040
about you or like this kind of stuff

1520
00:55:54,789 --> 00:55:52,319
happens to you

1521
00:55:56,309 --> 00:55:54,799
and and it and it and i would kind of

1522
00:55:57,990 --> 00:55:56,319
like oh i would dismiss it and i was

1523
00:55:59,510 --> 00:55:58,000
like oh i'm not important and i grew up

1524
00:56:00,870 --> 00:55:59,520
in michigan so i'm real good at like you

1525
00:56:03,990 --> 00:56:00,880
know like not wanting to be the center

1526
00:56:05,670 --> 00:56:04,000
of attention and such so um but at a

1527
00:56:07,910 --> 00:56:05,680
certain point i had to sort of like say

1528
00:56:09,349 --> 00:56:07,920
no something is going on whether it's me

1529
00:56:11,750 --> 00:56:09,359
or whether it's

1530
00:56:12,630 --> 00:56:11,760
my connection to the universe or whether

1531
00:56:15,349 --> 00:56:12,640
it's

1532
00:56:18,150 --> 00:56:15,359
the puppet master i can't answer that i

1533
00:56:19,910 --> 00:56:18,160
can't untangle those things as soon as i

1534
00:56:21,510 --> 00:56:19,920
say oh it's the puppet master right oh

1535
00:56:23,270 --> 00:56:21,520
i'm just a puppet on the string then i

1536
00:56:24,630 --> 00:56:23,280
can think of 10 examples of no no this

1537
00:56:26,230 --> 00:56:24,640
is totally my own free will and then as

1538
00:56:27,510 --> 00:56:26,240
soon as i get to my own free will i say

1539
00:56:28,870 --> 00:56:27,520
well there is this thing where i could

1540
00:56:30,150 --> 00:56:28,880
say like it's you know it was like the

1541
00:56:31,990 --> 00:56:30,160
script has been written ahead of time

1542
00:56:33,750 --> 00:56:32,000
but so it's not my free will

1543
00:56:34,789 --> 00:56:33,760
and so i'm

1544
00:56:36,630 --> 00:56:34,799
i'm like

1545
00:56:38,390 --> 00:56:36,640
i mean it's all it's all three right i

1546
00:56:40,870 --> 00:56:38,400
mean it's like the script has been

1547
00:56:42,390 --> 00:56:40,880
written ahead of time i'm playing out

1548
00:56:44,870 --> 00:56:42,400
i'm a puppet on a string at the same

1549
00:56:47,030 --> 00:56:44,880
time i'm i'm following my bliss i keep

1550
00:56:48,230 --> 00:56:47,040
getting hit with three points on a map

1551
00:56:50,230 --> 00:56:48,240
and you keep

1552
00:56:52,390 --> 00:56:50,240
mentioning things in three like the

1553
00:56:54,710 --> 00:56:52,400
dates that you just mentioned too

1554
00:56:56,549 --> 00:56:54,720
you know i think it was march 10th 11th

1555
00:56:58,309 --> 00:56:56,559
and 12th you know

1556
00:57:00,230 --> 00:56:58,319
it would have been march well it wasn't

1557
00:57:01,910 --> 00:57:00,240
it was it was

1558
00:57:03,910 --> 00:57:01,920
yeah yeah i don't know

1559
00:57:05,190 --> 00:57:03,920
so yeah so i'm just getting caught up in

1560
00:57:07,270 --> 00:57:05,200
that yeah and then three-third the

1561
00:57:09,750 --> 00:57:07,280
t-shirt with 3 33 oh yeah yeah just get

1562
00:57:12,630 --> 00:57:11,190
so that so the three events this is

1563
00:57:14,470 --> 00:57:12,640
something i this is like a weird little

1564
00:57:15,190 --> 00:57:14,480
thing that like blew my mind and stuff

1565
00:57:18,710 --> 00:57:15,200
so

1566
00:57:20,549 --> 00:57:18,720
two of them took place with my friend

1567
00:57:22,309 --> 00:57:20,559
natasha

1568
00:57:23,670 --> 00:57:22,319
right and then one of them i was all

1569
00:57:25,190 --> 00:57:23,680
alone

1570
00:57:26,950 --> 00:57:25,200
so all of them involved sleeping out

1571
00:57:29,510 --> 00:57:26,960
under the stars or one night was in a

1572
00:57:34,470 --> 00:57:29,520
tent but sleeping outside two two events

1573
00:57:37,910 --> 00:57:36,230
alone

1574
00:57:40,390 --> 00:57:37,920
and that happened on march 10th

1575
00:57:41,190 --> 00:57:40,400
march 10th is natasha's birthday

1576
00:57:43,829 --> 00:57:41,200
wow

1577
00:57:45,510 --> 00:57:43,839
like like so to if i told the story

1578
00:57:47,670 --> 00:57:45,520
correctly like if i would have to be

1579
00:57:49,750 --> 00:57:47,680
like i would i would have to give a huge

1580
00:57:51,109 --> 00:57:49,760
white board right and and five different

1581
00:57:52,789 --> 00:57:51,119
colored markers and i could say well

1582
00:57:54,069 --> 00:57:52,799
this thing acted right and make the line

1583
00:57:56,230 --> 00:57:54,079
over here you know when they want to

1584
00:57:58,150 --> 00:57:56,240
show like the like when the cops bust

1585
00:58:00,470 --> 00:57:58,160
into the house and like the the

1586
00:58:02,309 --> 00:58:00,480
the witness where the the suspect is

1587
00:58:04,870 --> 00:58:02,319
obviously insane the way they describe

1588
00:58:06,390 --> 00:58:04,880
it is they have like the huge wall with

1589
00:58:07,829 --> 00:58:06,400
like the thumbtacks and the string

1590
00:58:09,349 --> 00:58:07,839
connecting to the thing over here in the

1591
00:58:12,150 --> 00:58:09,359
string

1592
00:58:14,309 --> 00:58:12,160
over there and all these overlappings

1593
00:58:16,230 --> 00:58:14,319
i'm like that's my that's my life it's

1594
00:58:17,829 --> 00:58:16,240
like so so they're like their definition

1595
00:58:19,670 --> 00:58:17,839
of the insane

1596
00:58:21,030 --> 00:58:19,680
suspect is like oh god i guess that's

1597
00:58:24,390 --> 00:58:21,040
how that's like

1598
00:58:27,430 --> 00:58:24,400
that's me you know so um

1599
00:58:28,789 --> 00:58:27,440
but anyway yeah so i

1600
00:58:30,950 --> 00:58:28,799
sorry i just i did the thing where i

1601
00:58:33,990 --> 00:58:30,960
like went on and on and on so

1602
00:58:36,549 --> 00:58:34,000
no it's great yeah you can keep going

1603
00:58:37,910 --> 00:58:36,559
i'm just listening yeah

1604
00:58:40,789 --> 00:58:37,920
ask something else

1605
00:58:43,430 --> 00:58:40,799
or i will go on and on so okay i'll i'll

1606
00:58:46,710 --> 00:58:43,440
um i i did want to mention

1607
00:58:48,549 --> 00:58:46,720
one one thing um

1608
00:58:50,069 --> 00:58:48,559
all right um

1609
00:58:52,390 --> 00:58:50,079
before getting i noticed that we're

1610
00:58:54,950 --> 00:58:52,400
getting to the top of the hour and i did

1611
00:58:58,150 --> 00:58:54,960
i was just thinking you know was the

1612
00:59:00,549 --> 00:58:58,160
idea of recursive and and these kind of

1613
00:59:02,230 --> 00:59:00,559
retro causal states and things and

1614
00:59:04,789 --> 00:59:02,240
precognition

1615
00:59:07,030 --> 00:59:04,799
one really interesting element here for

1616
00:59:09,190 --> 00:59:07,040
me and just

1617
00:59:11,109 --> 00:59:09,200
experiencing this being here with you

1618
00:59:14,630 --> 00:59:11,119
both right um

1619
00:59:16,549 --> 00:59:14,640
and sharing like this is that you know

1620
00:59:17,829 --> 00:59:16,559
about a year ago

1621
00:59:19,430 --> 00:59:17,839
this month

1622
00:59:21,190 --> 00:59:19,440
as i recall

1623
00:59:24,789 --> 00:59:21,200
um

1624
00:59:27,109 --> 00:59:24,799
and around now was the first time that i

1625
00:59:29,510 --> 00:59:27,119
really had an interaction with mike

1626
00:59:31,190 --> 00:59:29,520
and then if we had two kind of pivotal

1627
00:59:33,750 --> 00:59:31,200
there was one in i think it was maybe

1628
00:59:36,309 --> 00:59:33,760
may maybe one around now

1629
00:59:39,510 --> 00:59:36,319
um i remember because i was in boulder

1630
00:59:42,630 --> 00:59:39,520
all right and i remember that mike also

1631
00:59:44,230 --> 00:59:42,640
attended um well we were in a support uh

1632
00:59:45,510 --> 00:59:44,240
we were in a private meeting of

1633
00:59:46,789 --> 00:59:45,520
experiencers

1634
00:59:48,710 --> 00:59:46,799
it was a support group i already said

1635
00:59:49,990 --> 00:59:48,720
support so i'll just say it uh mike and

1636
00:59:51,510 --> 00:59:50,000
i were in a support group together for

1637
00:59:53,510 --> 00:59:51,520
experiencers mike writes about support

1638
00:59:54,950 --> 00:59:53,520
groups for experiences sometimes

1639
00:59:56,950 --> 00:59:54,960
um so

1640
00:59:57,829 --> 00:59:56,960
we were in there and

1641
01:00:00,710 --> 00:59:57,839
mike

1642
01:00:02,870 --> 01:00:00,720
really you really um

1643
01:00:05,109 --> 01:00:02,880
you were really helpful to me in that

1644
01:00:06,950 --> 01:00:05,119
situation where i was talking about how

1645
01:00:08,150 --> 01:00:06,960
i've been talking about how

1646
01:00:10,390 --> 01:00:08,160
the experience your group had already

1647
01:00:12,390 --> 01:00:10,400
started but i wasn't

1648
01:00:14,630 --> 01:00:12,400
a public-facing experiencer i hadn't

1649
01:00:16,390 --> 01:00:14,640
talked about this stuff in public before

1650
01:00:17,589 --> 01:00:16,400
and i was really kind of guarded about

1651
01:00:20,309 --> 01:00:17,599
it i'd already

1652
01:00:22,150 --> 01:00:20,319
shot material with stuart anonymously

1653
01:00:24,470 --> 01:00:22,160
for aliens and artists but i hadn't kind

1654
01:00:26,630 --> 01:00:24,480
of come out of the experience or closet

1655
01:00:29,910 --> 01:00:26,640
and mike was really really sweet in this

1656
01:00:31,829 --> 01:00:29,920
meeting and you know i the conviction

1657
01:00:33,670 --> 01:00:31,839
that i heard from mike was really

1658
01:00:35,430 --> 01:00:33,680
compelling to me and it made like a

1659
01:00:37,910 --> 01:00:35,440
significant impact

1660
01:00:40,789 --> 01:00:37,920
to me and for like for

1661
01:00:42,950 --> 01:00:40,799
a while after that time i was thinking

1662
01:00:44,950 --> 01:00:42,960
well you know okay i'll keep that in

1663
01:00:46,950 --> 01:00:44,960
mind i'll keep that in mind and then

1664
01:00:53,030 --> 01:00:46,960
when ralph

1665
01:00:54,549 --> 01:00:53,040
started talking with me and others about

1666
01:00:57,270 --> 01:00:54,559
about this article that he was working

1667
01:00:59,430 --> 01:00:57,280
on for the times i was kind of on the

1668
01:01:01,670 --> 01:00:59,440
fence for a little bit and then i agreed

1669
01:01:02,470 --> 01:01:01,680
to do it and i almost pulled out at one

1670
01:01:05,109 --> 01:01:02,480
point

1671
01:01:08,309 --> 01:01:05,119
i almost played out because i realized

1672
01:01:10,470 --> 01:01:08,319
you know how many people in my building

1673
01:01:12,870 --> 01:01:10,480
were would read the new york times

1674
01:01:14,860 --> 01:01:12,880
i recognized how many people around me

1675
01:01:16,870 --> 01:01:14,870
you know in kind of middle class and

1676
01:01:19,510 --> 01:01:16,880
[Music]

1677
01:01:22,549 --> 01:01:19,520
metropolitan area of new york would

1678
01:01:24,870 --> 01:01:22,559
would be aware you know and

1679
01:01:26,470 --> 01:01:24,880
of course in my mind it was much bigger

1680
01:01:28,710 --> 01:01:26,480
than it could have played out to be

1681
01:01:31,829 --> 01:01:28,720
because who reads every article in every

1682
01:01:34,230 --> 01:01:31,839
edition of the newspaper right um but i

1683
01:01:36,630 --> 01:01:34,240
was i was this close to pulling out of

1684
01:01:38,789 --> 01:01:36,640
that uh article which really changed my

1685
01:01:39,829 --> 01:01:38,799
life you know it's part of it's how sean

1686
01:01:42,230 --> 01:01:39,839
and i met

1687
01:01:44,390 --> 01:01:42,240
you know it's it's how it so much has

1688
01:01:47,030 --> 01:01:44,400
come into my life from this and that

1689
01:01:49,430 --> 01:01:47,040
very day i had a conversation with mike

1690
01:01:50,309 --> 01:01:49,440
mike was talking with stuart and kirsten

1691
01:01:51,270 --> 01:01:50,319
and i

1692
01:01:53,510 --> 01:01:51,280
um

1693
01:01:55,990 --> 01:01:53,520
and and

1694
01:01:57,990 --> 01:01:56,000
he kind of stopped at one point mike you

1695
01:01:59,029 --> 01:01:58,000
stopped at one point you said

1696
01:02:01,029 --> 01:01:59,039
you know

1697
01:02:03,109 --> 01:02:01,039
you come out of the experience or closet

1698
01:02:05,910 --> 01:02:03,119
and it's just like

1699
01:02:07,510 --> 01:02:05,920
you used to have hiking buddies and now

1700
01:02:09,349 --> 01:02:07,520
you've got tennis buddies

1701
01:02:10,789 --> 01:02:09,359
it's just like one door closes and

1702
01:02:13,029 --> 01:02:10,799
another door opens and you'd be

1703
01:02:14,950 --> 01:02:13,039
surprised at what you find you know it's

1704
01:02:17,589 --> 01:02:14,960
just like going and having

1705
01:02:19,990 --> 01:02:17,599
and you said it so simply and so easily

1706
01:02:22,390 --> 01:02:20,000
and you and you pointed out you know

1707
01:02:24,390 --> 01:02:22,400
this this has only enriched my life you

1708
01:02:26,789 --> 01:02:24,400
said or something to that effect i don't

1709
01:02:29,750 --> 01:02:26,799
want to mischaracterize you but um i

1710
01:02:32,549 --> 01:02:29,760
just wanted to you know

1711
01:02:35,109 --> 01:02:32,559
somewhat publicly here say thank you um

1712
01:02:36,630 --> 01:02:35,119
because this has really really benefited

1713
01:02:38,789 --> 01:02:36,640
my life in a massive way and i

1714
01:02:40,470 --> 01:02:38,799
appreciate it

1715
01:02:42,950 --> 01:02:40,480
okay this that's very humbling thank you

1716
01:02:44,630 --> 01:02:42,960
so much jim you're very welcome and i i

1717
01:02:45,990 --> 01:02:44,640
remember the conversations and i just

1718
01:02:48,950 --> 01:02:46,000
kind of get on a roll sometimes and i

1719
01:02:53,109 --> 01:02:48,960
can't and i try to be really

1720
01:02:56,150 --> 01:02:54,710
like i recognize

1721
01:02:58,150 --> 01:02:56,160
we're in a different chapter right now

1722
01:03:00,230 --> 01:02:58,160
right so whitley strieber had had a

1723
01:03:02,549 --> 01:03:00,240
hellish experience when he came out that

1724
01:03:04,150 --> 01:03:02,559
was 35 years ago

1725
01:03:05,670 --> 01:03:04,160
or more now

1726
01:03:13,029 --> 01:03:05,680
and

1727
01:03:14,390 --> 01:03:13,039
talking about my experiences before i

1728
01:03:16,390 --> 01:03:14,400
had truly like

1729
01:03:19,990 --> 01:03:16,400
processed them so i had sort of come out

1730
01:03:22,390 --> 01:03:20,000
in this way and there was i got no

1731
01:03:23,910 --> 01:03:22,400
nothing negative happened i mean people

1732
01:03:25,190 --> 01:03:23,920
may have nobody said anything to my face

1733
01:03:26,870 --> 01:03:25,200
i'm certain people kind of whispered

1734
01:03:28,549 --> 01:03:26,880
behind my back but no one said anything

1735
01:03:32,150 --> 01:03:28,559
to my face i've had no negative

1736
01:03:34,710 --> 01:03:32,160
reactions or no negative

1737
01:03:36,230 --> 01:03:34,720
um consequences some of them have been

1738
01:03:37,910 --> 01:03:36,240
my own negative consequences where i've

1739
01:03:39,430 --> 01:03:37,920
self-imposed a certain kind of pressure

1740
01:03:40,309 --> 01:03:39,440
on myself

1741
01:03:42,390 --> 01:03:40,319
and

1742
01:03:43,910 --> 01:03:42,400
so i'm i'm

1743
01:03:46,150 --> 01:03:43,920
yeah so thank you so much for saying

1744
01:03:47,589 --> 01:03:46,160
that because it because that

1745
01:03:48,870 --> 01:03:47,599
and other people have told me something

1746
01:03:50,789 --> 01:03:48,880
similar too

1747
01:03:53,190 --> 01:03:50,799
that they've they've started speaking

1748
01:03:57,750 --> 01:03:53,200
out because i started speaking out i can

1749
01:04:04,150 --> 01:04:01,910
and i recognize i have a responsibility

1750
01:04:05,510 --> 01:04:04,160
to the greater public i guess in you

1751
01:04:06,789 --> 01:04:05,520
know in a small way i have a

1752
01:04:09,029 --> 01:04:06,799
responsibility to the greater republic

1753
01:04:10,630 --> 01:04:09,039
but in a really big way i have a

1754
01:04:12,870 --> 01:04:10,640
responsibility to

1755
01:04:17,270 --> 01:04:12,880
to people like you and me and sean and

1756
01:04:21,349 --> 01:04:20,150
you know swimming in these waters

1757
01:04:24,309 --> 01:04:21,359
and

1758
01:04:26,470 --> 01:04:24,319
something like you know really like only

1759
01:04:28,309 --> 01:04:26,480
only like like one percent of your life

1760
01:04:29,589 --> 01:04:28,319
is really like a you know like that's

1761
01:04:30,789 --> 01:04:29,599
all that really happens when you have

1762
01:04:32,069 --> 01:04:30,799
these experiences it's like a little

1763
01:04:33,829 --> 01:04:32,079
moment here a little moment there or

1764
01:04:35,510 --> 01:04:33,839
something happens and they're separated

1765
01:04:38,230 --> 01:04:35,520
oftentimes by years of time so it's

1766
01:04:39,910 --> 01:04:38,240
really there's like very little impact

1767
01:04:41,829 --> 01:04:39,920
that's happening but it's your response

1768
01:04:43,750 --> 01:04:41,839
to everything that that like

1769
01:04:45,029 --> 01:04:43,760
as can be profound

1770
01:04:53,910 --> 01:04:45,039
so

1771
01:04:55,510 --> 01:04:53,920
on and on and on but i'm just basically

1772
01:04:57,990 --> 01:04:55,520
saying thank you and i think that that

1773
01:05:00,789 --> 01:04:58,000
if folks are out there um

1774
01:05:02,309 --> 01:05:00,799
if you feel you shouldn't

1775
01:05:04,309 --> 01:05:02,319
come forward don't

1776
01:05:06,150 --> 01:05:04,319
and if if you're on the fence you know

1777
01:05:07,510 --> 01:05:06,160
think long and hard about it because you

1778
01:05:10,230 --> 01:05:07,520
can't put the toothpaste back in the

1779
01:05:13,270 --> 01:05:10,240
tube but

1780
01:05:14,309 --> 01:05:13,280
from my direct experience i have not had

1781
01:05:16,789 --> 01:05:14,319
i've had

1782
01:05:18,630 --> 01:05:16,799
so little negative

1783
01:05:22,150 --> 01:05:18,640
pushback or consequences that it's

1784
01:05:25,910 --> 01:05:23,990
so again thank you

1785
01:05:27,589 --> 01:05:25,920
i think that's that's beautiful and i

1786
01:05:29,510 --> 01:05:27,599
really um

1787
01:05:32,230 --> 01:05:29,520
love hearing about

1788
01:05:35,589 --> 01:05:32,240
that choice people make to

1789
01:05:37,910 --> 01:05:35,599
talk about their experiences um

1790
01:05:39,829 --> 01:05:37,920
i just mine was on that on this show

1791
01:05:40,470 --> 01:05:39,839
basically you know when i first started

1792
01:05:41,829 --> 01:05:40,480
it

1793
01:05:43,750 --> 01:05:41,839
streaming to

1794
01:05:45,750 --> 01:05:43,760
10 people or whatever and i couldn't get

1795
01:05:46,950 --> 01:05:45,760
more than 50 views in an episode and

1796
01:05:48,710 --> 01:05:46,960
that was i

1797
01:05:49,589 --> 01:05:48,720
you know and i'm talking about this

1798
01:05:51,109 --> 01:05:49,599
stuff

1799
01:05:53,910 --> 01:05:51,119
um

1800
01:05:56,630 --> 01:05:53,920
and you know that that was

1801
01:05:59,829 --> 01:05:56,640
my life completely changed as he said

1802
01:06:01,829 --> 01:05:59,839
you know my old life was a musician

1803
01:06:04,710 --> 01:06:01,839
playing at clubs writing music doing

1804
01:06:06,789 --> 01:06:04,720
releases not on a big scale but locally

1805
01:06:07,910 --> 01:06:06,799
and it was fulfilling

1806
01:06:09,670 --> 01:06:07,920
um

1807
01:06:11,829 --> 01:06:09,680
and

1808
01:06:13,670 --> 01:06:11,839
everything just completely changed for

1809
01:06:15,270 --> 01:06:13,680
me and now i'm doing something i never

1810
01:06:16,829 --> 01:06:15,280
would have thought i'd do in a million

1811
01:06:19,430 --> 01:06:16,839
years you know

1812
01:06:21,430 --> 01:06:19,440
um and for some reason i just kept going

1813
01:06:23,990 --> 01:06:21,440
with it and you know the the people you

1814
01:06:25,829 --> 01:06:24,000
wind up meeting like we're here uh jay

1815
01:06:26,870 --> 01:06:25,839
is one of my better friends

1816
01:06:31,990 --> 01:06:26,880
um

1817
01:06:34,710 --> 01:06:32,000
interviewing all sorts of people meeting

1818
01:06:37,750 --> 01:06:34,720
all sorts of people just uh

1819
01:06:39,910 --> 01:06:37,760
just really expanding uh my horizons

1820
01:06:42,309 --> 01:06:39,920
from what was kind of an otherwise glass

1821
01:06:45,270 --> 01:06:42,319
ceiling so to speak especially where i

1822
01:06:47,270 --> 01:06:45,280
live in milwaukee wisconsin so

1823
01:06:49,910 --> 01:06:47,280
you know um

1824
01:06:51,990 --> 01:06:49,920
so it's like uh

1825
01:06:53,990 --> 01:06:52,000
you know what what i've kind of uh i've

1826
01:06:55,670 --> 01:06:54,000
learned or at least like to live by is

1827
01:06:58,549 --> 01:06:55,680
uh never let fear

1828
01:07:00,470 --> 01:06:58,559
uh stop you from from being who you are

1829
01:07:03,270 --> 01:07:00,480
and doing what you know that you should

1830
01:07:06,470 --> 01:07:03,280
be doing you know whatever that is

1831
01:07:08,870 --> 01:07:06,480
you know um fear

1832
01:07:10,870 --> 01:07:08,880
don't let fear win and when you stand up

1833
01:07:12,710 --> 01:07:10,880
to things and and you take it on with

1834
01:07:14,150 --> 01:07:12,720
strength you'll you'll wind up realizing

1835
01:07:15,270 --> 01:07:14,160
that you're a lot stronger than you

1836
01:07:16,789 --> 01:07:15,280
thought you were

1837
01:07:18,870 --> 01:07:16,799
you know

1838
01:07:20,150 --> 01:07:18,880
yeah so that's all i have to say on that

1839
01:07:22,390 --> 01:07:20,160
and

1840
01:07:24,309 --> 01:07:22,400
um i just i'm so grateful that you came

1841
01:07:26,309 --> 01:07:24,319
and did this um i think this was an

1842
01:07:26,950 --> 01:07:26,319
impactful episode for myself personally

1843
01:07:30,390 --> 01:07:26,960
and

1844
01:07:32,950 --> 01:07:30,400
audience as well

1845
01:07:35,029 --> 01:07:32,960
um and i'll be forever grateful to you

1846
01:07:35,829 --> 01:07:35,039
for for taking time out to do this with

1847
01:07:37,510 --> 01:07:35,839
us

1848
01:07:39,990 --> 01:07:37,520
oh it's my honor it's my honor i enjoy

1849
01:07:40,950 --> 01:07:40,000
this so thank you yeah

1850
01:07:43,270 --> 01:07:40,960
um

1851
01:07:45,430 --> 01:07:43,280
anybody you want to say anything else

1852
01:07:47,430 --> 01:07:45,440
before we

1853
01:07:49,029 --> 01:07:47,440
oh i'm just i'm just happy to see mike

1854
01:07:49,829 --> 01:07:49,039
and i can't i can't wait to see him

1855
01:07:52,470 --> 01:07:49,839
again

1856
01:07:54,630 --> 01:07:52,480
um i think uh mike's mike's we're gonna

1857
01:07:56,630 --> 01:07:54,640
do a chat on the experiencer group site

1858
01:07:59,270 --> 01:07:56,640
uh in a couple months looking forward to

1859
01:08:01,109 --> 01:07:59,280
that and i just can't wait for the next

1860
01:08:03,190 --> 01:08:01,119
time that i see mike in person

1861
01:08:06,069 --> 01:08:03,200
you know casually walking up in the

1862
01:08:08,150 --> 01:08:06,079
hotel lobby and

1863
01:08:10,549 --> 01:08:08,160
out of the ether so beautiful

1864
01:08:13,829 --> 01:08:10,559
so that with that conference so like

1865
01:08:15,270 --> 01:08:13,839
we're describing these like

1866
01:08:16,709 --> 01:08:15,280
at a conference like that i've gotten

1867
01:08:18,149 --> 01:08:16,719
i've been to a bunch of conferences and

1868
01:08:19,510 --> 01:08:18,159
i and i went to a lot of them for a

1869
01:08:20,630 --> 01:08:19,520
while like i really found them

1870
01:08:25,590 --> 01:08:20,640
therapeutic

1871
01:08:27,110 --> 01:08:25,600
found is that like i'm i've grown since

1872
01:08:29,910 --> 01:08:27,120
the first conference i went to which was

1873
01:08:32,470 --> 01:08:29,920
probably 2007.

1874
01:08:35,910 --> 01:08:34,070
you know we were just at a conference

1875
01:08:37,430 --> 01:08:35,920
and and it wasn't everyone obviously

1876
01:08:38,950 --> 01:08:37,440
there was there was two there was like a

1877
01:08:40,390 --> 01:08:38,960
there was camps right there was like the

1878
01:08:41,349 --> 01:08:40,400
camps that they were academics and then

1879
01:08:43,430 --> 01:08:41,359
there were the people who had the

1880
01:08:44,709 --> 01:08:43,440
experience the direct experience

1881
01:08:45,910 --> 01:08:44,719
and i

1882
01:08:47,430 --> 01:08:45,920
kind of sensed that there was a little

1883
01:08:48,950 --> 01:08:47,440
bit of overlap between those two and

1884
01:08:50,630 --> 01:08:48,960
some people would share that stuff and

1885
01:08:53,990 --> 01:08:50,640
some people wouldn't but i sure suspect

1886
01:08:56,470 --> 01:08:54,000
there was some overlap there and um

1887
01:08:57,669 --> 01:08:56,480
but but you meet people there

1888
01:08:58,709 --> 01:08:57,679
and and

1889
01:09:00,229 --> 01:08:58,719
like

1890
01:09:01,269 --> 01:09:00,239
for me

1891
01:09:03,110 --> 01:09:01,279
like you know

1892
01:09:05,349 --> 01:09:03,120
like what brings you here like i feel

1893
01:09:06,950 --> 01:09:05,359
like i can tell right away

1894
01:09:08,870 --> 01:09:06,960
not hell right away but once they start

1895
01:09:09,590 --> 01:09:08,880
talking and they get a little bit you

1896
01:09:11,030 --> 01:09:09,600
know

1897
01:09:13,189 --> 01:09:11,040
they don't have to tell me their full

1898
01:09:15,349 --> 01:09:13,199
experience like it would take right with

1899
01:09:16,390 --> 01:09:15,359
a like we'd be to tell someone's full

1900
01:09:19,829 --> 01:09:16,400
experience it's like a six-hour

1901
01:09:21,749 --> 01:09:19,839
conversation you can't do it but you can

1902
01:09:23,829 --> 01:09:21,759
like there's a kinship and oftentimes

1903
01:09:26,070 --> 01:09:23,839
just that last that last

1904
01:09:26,709 --> 01:09:26,080
afternoon we're all seeing around the on

1905
01:09:33,749 --> 01:09:26,719
the

1906
01:09:36,950 --> 01:09:35,430
like like i didn't have to i didn't have

1907
01:09:38,390 --> 01:09:36,960
to turn to the people next to me and say

1908
01:09:39,829 --> 01:09:38,400
so what happened to you because i cuz i

1909
01:09:41,430 --> 01:09:39,839
just could drink in and know that they

1910
01:09:43,910 --> 01:09:41,440
had that experience and there's a

1911
01:09:45,030 --> 01:09:43,920
kinship that i felt that was really

1912
01:09:46,829 --> 01:09:45,040
important

1913
01:09:48,789 --> 01:09:46,839
and valuable and

1914
01:09:50,390 --> 01:09:48,799
necessary for me

1915
01:09:54,149 --> 01:09:50,400
just to press forward just to know that

1916
01:09:58,709 --> 01:09:56,709
yeah 100

1917
01:09:59,910 --> 01:09:58,719
100

1918
01:10:01,990 --> 01:09:59,920
that's to say that you have to show up

1919
01:10:03,110 --> 01:10:02,000
to the next one sean if you can you know

1920
01:10:04,470 --> 01:10:03,120
no pressure

1921
01:10:07,030 --> 01:10:04,480
yeah i'll be there

1922
01:10:08,550 --> 01:10:07,040
all right i will be there

1923
01:10:11,470 --> 01:10:08,560
thank you so much mark

1924
01:10:15,590 --> 01:10:14,149
[Laughter]

1925
01:10:17,990 --> 01:10:15,600
well

1926
01:10:19,910 --> 01:10:18,000
thank you so much mike um i look forward

1927
01:10:21,910 --> 01:10:19,920
to seeing you soon and i love the i

1928
01:10:23,830 --> 01:10:21,920
really value these conversations good

1929
01:10:26,390 --> 01:10:23,840
and nice do i

1930
01:10:31,430 --> 01:10:26,400
all right adios mike thank you so much

1931
01:10:36,149 --> 01:10:32,950
really good talk i

1932
01:10:37,910 --> 01:10:36,159
i came really close to tearing up really

1933
01:10:40,470 --> 01:10:37,920
close to tearing up

1934
01:10:42,550 --> 01:10:40,480
yeah um you made me smaller at just the

1935
01:10:44,630 --> 01:10:42,560
right moment and uh

1936
01:10:45,590 --> 01:10:44,640
i was getting it all worked out

1937
01:10:47,430 --> 01:10:45,600
yeah

1938
01:10:48,390 --> 01:10:47,440
get that for you i i thought that was

1939
01:10:51,030 --> 01:10:48,400
great

1940
01:10:54,149 --> 01:10:53,189
i gotta go

1941
01:10:56,950 --> 01:10:54,159
right on

1942
01:11:00,149 --> 01:10:56,960
yep i gotta give my wife a ride so all

1943
01:11:02,630 --> 01:11:00,159
right um so adios everyone thanks for

1944
01:11:04,790 --> 01:11:02,640
hanging out being such a good uh a group

1945
01:11:06,870 --> 01:11:04,800
and and i'm i'm really appreciative for

1946
01:11:08,470 --> 01:11:06,880
everyone taking out their time and and

1947
01:11:10,790 --> 01:11:08,480
watching this and being so kind in the

1948
01:11:12,790 --> 01:11:10,800
chat so thank you so much for doing that

1949
01:11:15,270 --> 01:11:12,800
i really appreciate it i know jay does

1950
01:11:16,630 --> 01:11:15,280
too so that being said

1951
01:11:22,490 --> 01:11:16,640
we'll see you next time